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Scientist Kate& Monster Surge question.


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#1 Cutievalkyrie

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:29 AM

There are two gates A& B, Kate is at gate B.

On mytho phase, gate A surges, we have 3 players, so we need to distribute 3 monsters to gate A & B.

Since Kate blocks gate B, how many monsters will appear at gate A? 2 or 3?

 

1. The answer is 2, since Kate blocked 1 monsters from getting out from gate B.

2. The answer is 3. since the blocked monster is not killed, it reroutes and get out from gate A…



#2 Tibs

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:07 AM

Blocked monsters are not re-routed. If the gate opened at A, two monsters should appear.



#3 eiterorm

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:18 AM

I'd say only two monsters appear at gate A, since Kate prevents one monster, which otherwise would have appeared, from spawning at gate B. Similarly, if Kate was instead standing at gate A, she would prevent two monsters from spawning. So if Kate was instead standing at gate A, no monsters would appear at gate A, and only one monster would appear at gate B.



#4 Julia

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:44 AM

sorry dude. This was longly debated on this very forum. Whenever a surge is centered on Kate, the surge is completely cancelled. So no monsters appearing at all, either in A or in B


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#5 Full Doom Track

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

Cutievalkyrie said:

There are two gates A& B, Kate is at gate B.

On mytho phase, gate A surges, we have 3 players, so we need to distribute 3 monsters to gate A & B.

Since Kate blocks gate B, how many monsters will appear at gate A? 2 or 3?

 

1. The answer is 2, since Kate blocked 1 monsters from getting out from gate B.

2. The answer is 3. since the blocked monster is not killed, it reroutes and get out from gate A…

 

Julia, I agree with you 100% if Kate is at location A and the monster Surge is centered around her.  It'd have to be something that happens very rarely though (Kate has explored the gate and failed her close check last turn).  However, Kate is at location B.  It makes sense that Kate only prevents monsters from spawning at her location because the MS is centered elsewhere.

I think you're saying the same thing and perhaps misread the post?  ;)



#6 Full Doom Track

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Full Doom Track said:

Julia, I agree with you 100% if Kate is at location A and the monster Surge is centered around her.  It'd have to be something that happens very rarely though (Kate has explored the gate and failed her close check last turn).  However, Kate is at location B.  It makes sense that Kate only prevents monsters from spawning at her location because the MS is centered elsewhere.

I think you're saying the same thing and perhaps misread the post?  ;)

Sorry, Julia, I am the one who misread the post.  You are right in your response.  I guess I need some coffee.



#7 eiterorm

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

Julia said:

sorry dude. This was longly debated on this very forum. Whenever a surge is centered on Kate, the surge is completely cancelled. So no monsters appearing at all, either in A or in B

What? On her sheet it only says that a gate cannot appear. If there is a monster surge, there is no gate appearing. I am confused now.



#8 Thomas Cartwright

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

eiterorm said:

Julia said:

 

sorry dude. This was longly debated on this very forum. Whenever a surge is centered on Kate, the surge is completely cancelled. So no monsters appearing at all, either in A or in B

 

 

What? On her sheet it only says that a gate cannot appear. If there is a monster surge, there is no gate appearing. I am confused now.

The reasoning goes like this: Look on page 9 of the rules, under "Phase V: Mythos." See step number 1 ("Open Gate and Spawn Monster")? Everything under that, which includes Doom Token, Monster placement, and monster surges, Kate shuts it down if she's at the gate location; it just doesn't happen. Go directly to Step 2: Place Clue Token.

 



#9 Cutievalkyrie

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:35 PM

Kate is at gate B, not the surged gate A. It should be working like this,

put 2 monsters at gate A, 1 monster at the suburb, which sounds more reasonable.



#10 Tibs

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

But it doesn't go to the outskirts. It just simply does not get placed. Kate has canceled it, not redirected it.



#11 eiterorm

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

Thomas Cartwright said:

The reasoning goes like this: Look on page 9 of the rules, under "Phase V: Mythos." See step number 1 ("Open Gate and Spawn Monster")? Everything under that, which includes Doom Token, Monster placement, and monster surges, Kate shuts it down if she's at the gate location; it just doesn't happen. Go directly to Step 2: Place Clue Token.

So Kate only prevents things from happening in the "Open Gate and Spawn Monster" part of the Mythos phase? So if Kate happens to be in the Merchant District streets, and a Mythos card releases a couple of monsters there (Headline), she does not prevent the monsters from appearing?



#12 The Professor

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

According to her special ability, "Gates and monsters cannot appear in Kate's location…"  There are a number of issues arise from these eight words.  First, there have been those who have posted based on the premise that 'gates' and 'monsters' were somehom coupled together…so that only during the Mythos Phase this occurs.  Others have pointed to the word 'location' ~ this is often misconstrued in this case as anyplace on the board marked by a circular space…not to include the streets.  It includes anyplace in the neighborhoods, Other Worlds, etc.

Gates may not appear. Thus, if a Mythos Card reveals a gate where Kate's standing, nothing happens…no gate, if there's a gate and she's there ~ no Monster Surge…nothing.  If, during the Arkham Encounter Phase, she draws a card which states. "A monster appears" ~ again, nothiong happens.  Finally, if she's in the street and a Mythos card reveals "an ancient ship releases two monsters into the street…nothing happens.  Finally, if she's in the Dreamlands and "a hideous monster appears" is drawn…again, nothing.


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#13 eiterorm

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

The Professor said:

According to her special ability, "Gates and monsters cannot appear in Kate's location…"  There are a number of issues arise from these eight words.  First, there have been those who have posted based on the premise that 'gates' and 'monsters' were somehom coupled together…so that only during the Mythos Phase this occurs.  Others have pointed to the word 'location' ~ this is often misconstrued in this case as anyplace on the board marked by a circular space…not to include the streets.  It includes anyplace in the neighborhoods, Other Worlds, etc.

Gates may not appear. Thus, if a Mythos Card reveals a gate where Kate's standing, nothing happens…no gate, if there's a gate and she's there ~ no Monster Surge…nothing.  If, during the Arkham Encounter Phase, she draws a card which states. "A monster appears" ~ again, nothiong happens.  Finally, if she's in the street and a Mythos card reveals "an ancient ship releases two monsters into the street…nothing happens.  Finally, if she's in the Dreamlands and "a hideous monster appears" is drawn…again, nothing.

Thanks for the clarification. Based on the wording on the sheet, my understanding was that she could not cancel a monster surge, only the monsters spawning at her location. It would seem I have to play even less strict now (in those, as Full Doom Track points out, very few situations when Kate has failed to close/seal a gate _and_ a mythos cards creates a monster surge at her location).



#14 Thomas Cartwright

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:22 AM

eiterorm said:

Thanks for the clarification. Based on the wording on the sheet, my understanding was that she could not cancel a monster surge, only the monsters spawning at her location. It would seem I have to play even less strict now (in those, as Full Doom Track points out, very few situations when Kate has failed to close/seal a gate _and_ a mythos cards creates a monster surge at her location).

The only time we've had Kate stop a monster surge, it wasn't because she had failed to close the gate; it was because she'd had an other world encounter that sent her back to Arkham early and had to wait until the next turn to attempt gate closure.



#15 Julia

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:34 AM

Full Doom Track said:

Full Doom Track said:

 

Julia, I agree with you 100% if Kate is at location A and the monster Surge is centered around her.  It'd have to be something that happens very rarely though (Kate has explored the gate and failed her close check last turn).  However, Kate is at location B.  It makes sense that Kate only prevents monsters from spawning at her location because the MS is centered elsewhere.

I think you're saying the same thing and perhaps misread the post?  ;)

 

 

Sorry, Julia, I am the one who misread the post.  You are right in your response.  I guess I need some coffee.

No probs :-) I also could have included the original post I was referring to in my answer. Still having troubles while posting comments on this board, though ::gently sgrunting::


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#16 Julia

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

eiterorm said:

Thanks for the clarification. Based on the wording on the sheet

Indeed. The ability is poorly worded. Just imagine this: she prevents a gate from appearing. What triggers a monster surge? A gate appearing on an already existing gate. But his can't happen, because she's forcing the new gate not to appear. Hence, no monster surge.

Anyway, The Professor answered brilliantly, covering all the possible cases. And he was 101% right. Well done, Prof!


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#17 The Professor

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:02 AM

Julia, as always, you're very kind.  I don't post often, but when I do, I surely hope that I'm on firm ground based on a careful reading of the rules, interpretations from the various fora, and a lot of games! 


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#18 Full Doom Track

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:58 AM

The Professor said:

I don't post often, but when I do, I Dos Equis! 

Read your post as that…..

 

I'll also say something useful in that Kate has prevented several monster surges be being purposly 'parked' at a high gate probability location.



#19 DarknessEternal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

Full Doom Track said:

I'll also say something useful in that Kate has prevented several monster surges be being purposly 'parked' at a high gate probability location.

She can't just hang out at an existing gate though.  If she's at a location with a gate during the encounter phase, she's sucked through.



#20 The Professor

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

FullDoomTrack,

     The commercial would start…he rolls as many dice as he wants to…he never fails a Horror Check, he selects the three skills he wants every Upkeep…he is, the most fascinating Investigator in Arkham.


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