Jump to content



Photo

3 vs.4 That is the question.


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

Was looking at this build tonight.

Biggs

Wedge

Dutch 

 

or 

 

Luke

Wedge 

Dutch

 

or 

 

Wedge

Biggs

Rookie

Rookie

 

 

 



#2 Tawnos

Tawnos

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

That's 104 points.  Try dropping Dutch for a second Rookie and give R2-F2 to Biggs.

If you're dead set on having a Y-wing, try a Gold Squadron with an Ion Cannon and drop Wedge down to Luke, and then a Rookie and Biggs with R2-F2.



#3 ziggy2000

ziggy2000

    Member

  • Members
  • 705 posts

Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Tawnos said:

That's 104 points.  Try dropping Dutch for a second Rookie and give R2-F2 to Biggs.

If you're dead set on having a Y-wing, try a Gold Squadron with an Ion Cannon and drop Wedge down to Luke, and then a Rookie and Biggs with R2-F2.

In what universe?

Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible) the three builds mentioned are 77, 80 and 96 points respectively, That's with no upgrades. Where did 104 come from?

Personally I'd try to get 2 Y-wings in the mix - Biggs, Dutch, Rookie and Gold.

 



#4 Tawnos

Tawnos

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:24 AM

ziggy2000 said:

Tawnos said:

 

That's 104 points.  Try dropping Dutch for a second Rookie and give R2-F2 to Biggs.

If you're dead set on having a Y-wing, try a Gold Squadron with an Ion Cannon and drop Wedge down to Luke, and then a Rookie and Biggs with R2-F2.

 

 

In what universe?

Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible) the three builds mentioned are 77, 80 and 96 points respectively, That's with no upgrades. Where did 104 come from?

Personally I'd try to get 2 Y-wings in the mix - Biggs, Dutch, Rookie and Gold.

 

The OP has been edited.  Originally it was just one squad: Wedge, Biggs, Rookie, and Dutch with a R5 and Ion.



#5 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,289 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:34 AM

I'm debating those first two builds myself. What are some of you all's thoughts on Luke vs Biggs in the 3-ship build?

#6 Vorpal Sword

Vorpal Sword

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,479 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

dbmeboy said:

I'm debating those first two builds myself. What are some of you all's thoughts on Luke vs Biggs in the 3-ship build?

I'm working on a set of simulation tools, because I'm a stats geek. So, with the caveat that this is all theorycraft…

Luke is far better at evasion than Biggs. An Academy Pilot shooting at Luke, with no range modifiers, hits only 15% of the time; a typical TIE shooting at Biggs hits 40% of the time. Luke also benefits more from R2-F2's action: Biggs is hit about 25% of the time, and Luke is hit only 5% of the time. (I'm looking forward to trying Luke + R2-F2 + Elusiveness. Swarm this, you Imperial scum!)

The counter to all of that awesome dodginess is that your opponent has no reason to shoot at Luke, and a smart opponent will leave him for last and strip his support. In that sense, he's not a variation on Biggs but the anti-Biggs: Luke effectively directs your opponent to fire on his allies.

So the question of Luke vs Biggs is really a question of how sturdy your other 2-3 pilots are, and what happens to your list when you lose them. Personally, I think I've convinced myself to try this at some point:

  • Luke + R2-F2 + Determination
  • Wedge + R2 Astromech + Expert Handling + Proton Torpedoes (1)
  • Dutch + R2-D2 + Ion Cannon


#7 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,289 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

I was looking at:

Luke + Marksmanship

Wedge + Expert Handling + Proton Torpedo + R2-D2

Dutch + R5-K6 + Ion Cannon Turret

(with another possibility being dropping the pilot talents to get a second torpedo to go on Dutch)

vs

Biggs + R2-F2

Wedge + R2-D2 + Proton Torpedo +/- Determination

Dutch + R5-K6 + Proton Torpedo + Ion Cannon Turret

 

Edit: Mistake in my first list fixed, upgrades are now where I meant them to be



#8 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Biggs + R5-K6

Wedge + R2-D2 + Proton Torpedo + Squad Leader

Dutch +R2-D2 + Proton Torpedo + Ion Cannon Turret

 

Just some thoughts - Biggs moves and chooses Target Lock/Focus as his intial action.  Next Dutch moves, and uses the Target Lock Action (because he acquires target lock) he then gives one to Wedge/Biggs.  Wedge is last to move, and depending on the situation (best case he has a target lock - and if he has the shots focuses - worse case he has to target/lock himself, however most cases he will have the target lock and would then be able to use squad leader to give Biggs a focus for his target lock, or dutch a focus for his).  Great snergy to the list I think.  Does require a 1-2 bubble, but with Biggs there he will be soaking up most of the shots round 1 with a potential to unleash and kill 2 ships in return with the two PT shots.

 

Thoughts?



#9 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

Sorry was also just curious - has anyone run this, if so what happened.

Rookie Pilot + proton torpedoes

Rookie Pilot + proton torpedoes

Rookie Pilot + proton torpedoes

Rookie Pilot + proton torpedoes

 



#10 Tawnos

Tawnos

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

Theterrainstudio said:

Biggs + R5-K6

Wedge + R2-D2 + Proton Torpedo + Squad Leader

Dutch +R2-D2 + Proton Torpedo + Ion Cannon Turret

 

Just some thoughts - Biggs moves and chooses Target Lock/Focus as his intial action.  Next Dutch moves, and uses the Target Lock Action (because he acquires target lock) he then gives one to Wedge/Biggs.  Wedge is last to move, and depending on the situation (best case he has a target lock - and if he has the shots focuses - worse case he has to target/lock himself, however most cases he will have the target lock and would then be able to use squad leader to give Biggs a focus for his target lock, or dutch a focus for his).  Great snergy to the list I think.  Does require a 1-2 bubble, but with Biggs there he will be soaking up most of the shots round 1 with a potential to unleash and kill 2 ships in return with the two PT shots.

 

Thoughts?

You can't use R2-D2 twice (and even if you could, your squad would be 102 points).

If you're going to put R5-K6 on anyone, put it on Dutch.  His ability will activate off of it.

I've never liked Squad Leader on Wedge.  Wedge is typically the one you wanting getting as many Actions or Action-equivalents as possible; he shouldn't be giving his Action away to other pilots.

R2-F2 is crazy good on Biggs.  His life expectancy goes up dramatically.  If you're dead set on using R2-D2, it works alright on him, but R2 can't keep up with the pounding he's going to take, not to mention the restriction to your movement to get those shields back.



#11 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

yes, the double R2D2 was a typo, sorry about that.



#12 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

So do you like this one….

 

Wedge + Protons Torpedoes + R2 Astromech + Marksmanship

Biggs + R2F2

Dutch + R5K6 + Ion Cannon + Proton Torpedoes

 

another option might be…

Wedge + Protons Torpedoes + R2D2 + Expert Handling

Biggs + R2F2

Gold + R5K6 + Ion Cannon + Proton Torpedoes + Proton Torpedoes



#13 Vorpal Sword

Vorpal Sword

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,479 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

dbmeboy said:

Luke + Marksmanship

Wedge + Expert Handling + Proton Torpedo + R2-D2

Dutch + R5-K6 + Ion Cannon Turret

Edit: Mistake in my first list fixed, upgrades are now where I meant them to be

It's okay; I screwed up my math. Luke + R2-F2 gets hit about 9% of the time, versus 29% for a generic X-wing with the same astromech. Without the defensive upgrade, Luke is hit about 18% of the time.

In the first list, I think Marksmanship is actually a nice pickup for Luke, particularly if Dutch is feeding him free target locks. My biggest worry is that Wedge is still a pretty juicy target, and R2-D2 is at his least effective when his ship is likely to take a lot of attacks. If you get a chance to try the list out, let us know how it goes.

@theterrainstudio: I've thought about the 4 Rookie list, and the short version is that I think it might be a good counter for the 7+ Imperial swarm, but it will have serious problems in mirror matches and against 5- and 6-ship Imperial lists.



#14 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,289 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

Vorpal Sword said:

In the first list, I think Marksmanship is actually a nice pickup for Luke, particularly if Dutch is feeding him free target locks. My biggest worry is that Wedge is still a pretty juicy target, and R2-D2 is at his least effective when his ship is likely to take a lot of attacks. If you get a chance to try the list out, let us know how it goes.

That's actually the main reason Wedge gets Expert Handling.  Being able to Barrel Roll can help keep him from taking too many shots.  The next turn, he can do a green maneuver, recover a shield, and repeat.  It looks like a nice mini-combo on paper at least… it could be a while before I actually get to test it though as I'm on the road for the next several weeks for residency interviews…



#15 Hrathen

Hrathen

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,347 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

Trade Biggs for Dutch.  I am not a big fan of an ability that makes 33% of your ships easier to kill.

Wegdge, Luke, BIggs results in imperials focussing fire on BIggs, then Wedge, then Luke. 

Rebels actually fare much better when the Imprials don't focus there fire so why encourige it.

Dutch flying next to Wedge makes Wedge just an insane killer.  You should get three attack dice with a target lock and a focus against likely only 2 agility dice.  Even if the TIE has an evade, he is going to take some heavy damage.  And Wedge and Dutch should pull this off just about every turn.  I don't even give Wedge Torpedoes.


Putting an end to this distructive conflict and bringing order to the galaxy.

#16 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:39 AM

Sorry can you put that into a list - I don't quite follow.



#17 Tawnos

Tawnos

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:55 AM

If you want to make Wedge truly silly, give this a try:

  • Wedge, R2-F2, Swarm Tactics, Proton Torpedo
  • Garven, R2, Proton Torpedo
  • Dutch, R5-K6, Proton Torpedo

98 points, so chances are you'll have initiative.  Dutch feeds Wedge Target Locks, Wedge Swarm Tactics up Garven, who then takes his combat phase before Wedge, feeding Wedge a Focus token.  Wedge's Action is now free to R2-F2 every turn to give him some extra survivability.  Forego Garven's Focus Action on the first round of combat in favor of getting his own Target Lock and dropping a 3 Torp alpha strike.

Or, if you're okay with downgrading Wedge to Luke, you can do this:

  • Luke, R2-F2, Swarm Tactics, Proton Torpedo
  • Garven, R2-D2, Proton Torpedo
  • Dutch, R5-K6, Proton Torpedo

Same basic deal, but that extra free point allows you to drop R2-D2 on Garven for a total of 100 points.  Luke gets great returns out of R2-F2.  Same first-combat alpha strike, followed by good defensive combat.  It's less crucial that Luke receive all of the Target Locks and Focuses from Garven and Dutch in this squad, so you've got a little more flexibility at the cost of Wedge's kickass ability.



#18 Tawnos

Tawnos

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:55 AM

Ugh, FFG forums have been choking on Firefox the past couple of days.  Yay for double posts.



#19 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:11 PM

Wedge, R2-F2, Swarm Tactics, Proton Torpedo

Garven, R2, Proton Torpedo

Dutch, R5-K6, Proton Torpedo

 

Am I to assume the Ion Cannon to bring this list to 98 is missing?



#20 Theterrainstudio

Theterrainstudio

    Member

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

I see now your had posted Dutch, and not Gold as I thought,  I should have read more clearly My bad.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS