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Some questions about HoD


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#1 Sulpures

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:10 PM

1. When does the game actually start? Before or after setup? If the game start before setup, can I setup "Increaded levy" on the HoD location?

2. If the game starts before setup, can I setup an HoD location duplicate? If the game starts after setup, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table?

Many thanks~



#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

Sulpures said:

1. When does the game actually start? Before or after setup? If the game start before setup, can I setup "Increaded levy" on the HoD location?

2. If the game starts before setup, can I setup an HoD location duplicate? If the game starts after setup, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table?

Many thanks~

  1. No, the location is not part of your setup.
  2. No, you may not place duplicates during setup (page 9 of the Core Set rulebook).

 



#3 Sulpures

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

Khudzlin said:

Sulpures said:

 

1. When does the game actually start? Before or after setup? If the game start before setup, can I setup "Increaded levy" on the HoD location?

2. If the game starts before setup, can I setup an HoD location duplicate? If the game starts after setup, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table?

Many thanks~

 

 

  1. No, the location is not part of your setup.
  2. No, you may not place duplicates during setup (page 9 of the Core Set rulebook).

 

 

If so, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table when the game starts?



#4 Saturnine

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

Sulpures said:

If so, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table when the game starts?

Playing a duplicate, just like playing any other non-event card, can only be done during a Marshaling phase.



#5 DubiousYak

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

Sulpures said:

Khudzlin said:

Sulpures said:

1. When does the game actually start? Before or after setup? If the game start before setup, can I setup "Increaded levy" on the HoD location?

2. If the game starts before setup, can I setup an HoDor location duplicate? If the game starts after setup, can I put HoDor location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table?

Many thanks~

  1. No, the location is not part of your setup.
  2. No, you may not place duplicates during setup (page 9 of the Core Set rulebook).

If so, can I put HoDor location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table when the game starts?

Fixed.  You are welcome.



#6 Sulpures

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

Saturnine said:

Sulpures said:

If so, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table when the game starts?

Playing a duplicate, just like playing any other non-event card, can only be done during a Marshaling phase.

Thinking about the situation that put a unique maester that is already in play into play through "At the gate"

#7 Toqtamish

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

Sulpures said:

Saturnine said:

 

Sulpures said:

 

If so, can I put HoD location as a duplicate for the card already setup on the table when the game starts?

 

 

Playing a duplicate, just like playing any other non-event card, can only be done during a Marshaling phase.

Thinking about the situation that put a unique maester that is already in play into play through "At the gate"

 

Putting a card into play like At the Gates does is not the same as playing a card. Also At the Gates doesn't say anything about a unique maester at all and you would not be able to put into play a unique Maester you already control.

 

.



#8 ktom

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Toqtamish said:

Putting a card into play like At the Gates does is not the same as playing a card. Also At the Gates doesn't say anything about a unique maester at all and you would not be able to put into play a unique Maester you already control.
I'm not following this. Are you saying that At the Gates doesn't allow you to get a unique Maester from your deck? That's simply not true. So long as the card is an in-House or neutral Maester of the correct printed cost, it meets the requirement. The fact tha At the Gates says nothing about "unique" means that it is not checked one way or another, not that it prevents you from using it to get a unique Maester.

Further, as a "put into play" effect, it can be used to dupe a unique card that you already have in play - provided that the card you "put into play" meets all the requirements for the effect (in-House or neutral Maester character, printed cost 3 or less).

The fact that At the Gates can put unique Maesters into play - and dupe unique Maesters already in play - has been pretty well established for a long time.

 

That said, you still cannot use "setup" to dupe the location you get with House of Dreams because the rules specifically say you cannot place dupes during setup. In order to place dupes during setup, you would need to put down 2 of the same unique cards so that when you reveal your setup cards, one enters play as a duplicate. That means setup cards cannot enter play as duplicates, period, blocking you from duping the House of Dreams location with a setup card.



#9 Sulpures

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

ktom said:

Toqtamish said:

Putting a card into play like At the Gates does is not the same as playing a card. Also At the Gates doesn't say anything about a unique maester at all and you would not be able to put into play a unique Maester you already control.
I'm not following this. Are you saying that At the Gates doesn't allow you to get a unique Maester from your deck? That's simply not true. So long as the card is an in-House or neutral Maester of the correct printed cost, it meets the requirement. The fact tha At the Gates says nothing about "unique" means that it is not checked one way or another, not that it prevents you from using it to get a unique Maester.

Further, as a "put into play" effect, it can be used to dupe a unique card that you already have in play - provided that the card you "put into play" meets all the requirements for the effect (in-House or neutral Maester character, printed cost 3 or less).

The fact that At the Gates can put unique Maesters into play - and dupe unique Maesters already in play - has been pretty well established for a long time.

 

That said, you still cannot use "setup" to dupe the location you get with House of Dreams because the rules specifically say you cannot place dupes during setup. In order to place dupes during setup, you would need to put down 2 of the same unique cards so that when you reveal your setup cards, one enters play as a duplicate. That means setup cards cannot enter play as duplicates, period, blocking you from duping the House of Dreams location with a setup card.

Thanks Ktom. But according to your explanation, the HoD location comes into play before setup right? But some people say that the game actually begins after setup, so the HoD location comes into play after you place setup cards on the table. Is that correct?

#10 ktom

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:05 AM

Sulpures said:

Thanks Ktom. But according to your explanation, the HoD location comes into play before setup right? But some people say that the game actually begins after setup, so the HoD location comes into play after you place setup cards on the table. Is that correct?
It really doesn't matter one way or another because unless a card specifically says it works during setup - like House of Dreams itself - no cards do anything during setup. There are no cards in the game that can do anything to the House of Dreams location (or have anything done to them by the House of Dreams location) until the beginning of Round 1.

But if what you're really asking is whether players get to see your House of Dreams location before they draw setup hands and place their setup cards, the answer is "yes." That's because you announce your House and agenda before anyone draws/places for setup and House of Dreams itself tells you to get the location when you announce your agenda.



#11 Sulpures

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

ktom said:

Sulpures said:

Thanks Ktom. But according to your explanation, the HoD location comes into play before setup right? But some people say that the game actually begins after setup, so the HoD location comes into play after you place setup cards on the table. Is that correct?
It really doesn't matter one way or another because unless a card specifically says it works during setup - like House of Dreams itself - no cards do anything during setup. There are no cards in the game that can do anything to the House of Dreams location (or have anything done to them by the House of Dreams location) until the beginning of Round 1.

But if what you're really asking is whether players get to see your House of Dreams location before they draw setup hands and place their setup cards, the answer is "yes." That's because you announce your House and agenda before anyone draws/places for setup and House of Dreams itself tells you to get the location when you announce your agenda.

No,that's not my question. What I'm asking is that if the HoD location comes into play after setup and I've already setup this location on the table, could the location that comes into play through HoD agenda become a duplicate?

#12 ktom

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:17 AM

Sulpures said:

No,that's not my question. What I'm asking is that if the HoD location comes into play after setup and I've already setup this location on the table, could the location that comes into play through HoD agenda become a duplicate?
Which has effectively ben answered with everything that has been said. To go through it, the location you get for House of Dreams is put on the table when the agenda is announced. Since the agenda is announced before anyone draws or places setup cards, the location is already there when you get to placing/revealing your cards. The rules specifically prohibit you from placing/revealing cards in setup that will become duplicates. So you cannot get a duplicate of your House of Dreams location before Round 1 by placing another copy of it during setup.

And ultimately, House of Dreams is not a "put into play" effect, anyway, making the fact that "put into play" effects can dupe unique cards that are already in play inapplicable.



#13 Sulpures

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

ktom said:

Sulpures said:

No,that's not my question. What I'm asking is that if the HoD location comes into play after setup and I've already setup this location on the table, could the location that comes into play through HoD agenda become a duplicate?
Which has effectively ben answered with everything that has been said. To go through it, the location you get for House of Dreams is put on the table when the agenda is announced. Since the agenda is announced before anyone draws or places setup cards, the location is already there when you get to placing/revealing your cards. The rules specifically prohibit you from placing/revealing cards in setup that will become duplicates. So you cannot get a duplicate of your House of Dreams location before Round 1 by placing another copy of it during setup.

And ultimately, House of Dreams is not a "put into play" effect, anyway, making the fact that "put into play" effects can dupe unique cards that are already in play inapplicable.

Thanks, I got it.

#14 ktom

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:55 PM

(Kinda fun when 4 posts each give you just one of the 4 pieces you need to put together to get a complete answer, huh?)



#15 orion_kurnous

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:24 AM

If my opponent play HoD can i put an attachment in his location although dont have effect in the location?



#16 ktom

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

Sure. Assuming the attachment can go on locations. As you say, no much benefit or strategic reason to do so, though.



#17 orion_kurnous

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:26 AM

Hello, i put a Bear island in HoD, but in my setup, i have another Bear Island . Can i attach as a dupe?



#18 ktom

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

orion_kurnous said:

Hello, i put a Bear island in HoD, but in my setup, i have another Bear Island . Can i attach as a dupe?
No.

The reasons why you can't are detailed earlier in this thread.



#19 MrFixit

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

Stupid question but what sense does it make to play HoD and have the same announced card another time in your deck??

 

The HoD location is the safest it gets .. i don't see how you could get rid of it and what sense does it have to have it more than once?

Unless its non unique ofc..

 



#20 Amuk

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

MrFixit said:

Stupid question but what sense does it make to play HoD and have the same announced card another time in your deck??

The HoD location is the safest it gets .. i don't see how you could get rid of it and what sense does it have to have it more than once?

Unless its non unique ofc..

I haven't seen fit to do so in any of the HoD decks I've built yet but the location (which the agenda requires to be unique, BTW) is vulnerable to plot effects. If your deck is built such that it really, really needs the location in play, a dupe can protect it from, say, A City Besieged or at least give you a backup copy to play if it gets removed by S&D. So there will be cases where people decide that it's worth it to have another copy in their decks.


Cordially,

Amuk

 

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