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double barreled Automatic pistols and dual shot talent


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#1 CiudadGunMetalGunSlinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

Regarding Deathwatch stormbolter and/or a Dark Heresy double barrelled semi automatic pistol (like the Arsenal Arms http://www.arsenalfi...e-barrel-pistol)

 

Wouldn't any Storm design weapon automatically get the results of "Dual Shot" talent? It seems that the storm bolter or other similar weapon should have the target toughness only count once.

Also, if the firer also have two of the same weapons AND the "Dual Shot" talent, the four hits should probably only get one toughness bonus for all four hits also.

Thanks you for your time.



#2 Jeans_Stealer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

Hum. An interesting point. Ask Your GM - does he want the character to remove 3 or 6 points of damage using his toughness? (assuming he's rolling for a mook.) Otherwise I'd personally say as a GM… No, Dual shot is dual shot, the bonus should only apply when that skill is used, not every time Storm is involved. The Character paid EXP for the skill that he earned shooting other mooks.



#3 KommissarK

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:04 AM

What you're looking for is Twin Linked, not Storm.

Storm should not intrinisicly give the benefit of Dual Shot.

As far as dual wielding Storm/Twin Linked weapons with Full Auto and their interaction with Dual Shot - I'm not sure. Don't have my book with me. I'm not even sure you can use Dual Shot with a rate of fire greater than single shot. If it does work, I would be extremely cautious about how it interacts with Storm/Twin Linked.



#4 Darth Smeg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

Dual Shot is for single-shot attacks only.


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#5 Braddoc

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

I would call it storm actually; the firearm is one solid block of a weapon, is it not 2 different weapons connected to a single firing mechanism.

You press the trigger the gun fires 2 shots=storm

You press the trigger, 2 weapons fires at the same target=twin-linked.

 

This pistol (which is badass by the way) is basically a storm stub automatic.


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#6 CiudadGunMetalGunSlinger

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

Ok, But, would the Storm quality in a weapon, automatically, give it a Dual Shot effect by its very nature? For Example: a character opens up in a semi automatic fashion with a single storm stub automatic.  Should each hit from the roll give the dual shot effect since it is being fired at the same time at the same target and hitting in virtually the same spot?

And/or, if one has the Dual Shot talent, would shooting a Storm quality weapon then give the effects of Dual Shot, as in the above example.

And/or if the firer had the talent dual shot and fired a single shot from two weapons gunslinger style, would only the second weapon's hits be subject to negate the target's Toughness bonus?

So many barrels, so little time…comiendo

 



#7 KommissarK

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:01 AM

No, Storm does not inherently give the Dual Shot effect.

You gotta realize, Dual Shot is closer to an action type. It has a very specifc set of requirements to perform, and is a very specific combat action.

Dual shot quite specificly requires a single shot attack (because it breaks the game on higher RoFs).

Storm, at least going off the OW beta rules (the only rules I have readily available to me at the moment), clearly states that it applies to the full automatic firing mode. You should check to see if the Storm rules you are using have a similar requirement. In other words, if not firing in Full Auto, you only fire a single shot.

Fortunately, this does simplify things. It means that whenever you are firing single shot, you are not actually benefitting from Storm. So the Dual Shot question doesn't come up unless you're dual wielding. In which case it still is only one shot fired from either weapon.



#8 CiudadGunMetalGunSlinger

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

Let me put it another way, The talent Dual Shot and a double barrel weapon acheive the same effect through different ways. One by having the weapon fire two shots at the same time to the same virtual location, the other by using two separate weapons fired at the same time to the same relative location.

 

The same action should yield the same results. The rules seem to be inconsistant.  I think that the Dual Shot talent is a bad idea and should probably go away.

 



#9 Thebigjul

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Strom gives you 2 hits by degree of success when firing in full auto, multiplying the chance to hit your ennemy and make damage, but bullets do not aim to the same place, your gun hace recoil and even if lots of bullets hits none is going exactly where the other go.

Storm ballistic schematic

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x

Dual shot make you shoot with to single shot weapon at the same location to the millimeter, that why it reduce the ennemy capacity to reduce damage, second bullets use the same entry point that the first.

Dual shot ballistic schematic

 

------ x

       /

    /

/

 

They are not the same effect or action and then do not gives you the same bonus.



#10 KommissarK

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

Thebigul hit exactly what I was going to say on the head.

The double barrelled notion does not achieve the same angles a 2 gun solution can.

 

As far as Dual Shot being bad… its hard to say. It takes the right setup. Still, you gotta realize you're essentially asking to break the rules in a fairly serious way, and attempting to justify it with a questionable interpretation of mechanics.

Dual Shot is intended for single shot firing modes. Storm only applies to Full Auto. Therefore, the two mechanics will never interact. Storm and Dual Shot combined together would actually make a frighteningly impressive weapon, while not achieving that technically advanced of a feat (a double barreled stub automatic would be more impressive than a plasma pistol due to sheer base damage and extra d10s rolled on damage).



#11 CiudadGunMetalGunSlinger

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

So a Dual Shot is a Robin Hood splitting of arrows type shot only in a combat situation. Sound highly improbable, compared to a simple double barrel solution. I still think Dual Shot should probably go away.

 

However, on a different note, image an machinepistol (Uzi) double barrel/Storm quality. I think wielding two of those would be fun. I would name one SUzi(Storm Uzi), and the other DUzi(Double barreled Uzi).

 

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