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Two depressing 75-point matches.


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#1 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

I got to play two matches with a friend tonight; since I don't have a lot of practice yet, we decided on 75 points. While setting up, we had a brief conversation about the local metagame (which is, to be fair, limited to three or four players), and the fact that six- and seven-ship TIE swarms are fairly dominant. I picked up the Rebel side, with the intention of proving him wrong.

In both matches, he fielded Vader and Howlrunner, both with Swarm Tactics, and two Academy Pilots. In the first match, I picked up Wedge with an R2 Astromech and Marksman, plus Horton Salm with R2-D2 and an Ion Cannon Turret. Both had Proton Torpedoes.

The first battle report is short: we both maneuvered, Wedge fired his Torpedoes at Howlrunner to absolutely no effect (1 hit and 3 blanks versus 2 evades), and was then destroyed by concentrated fire from Vader and one Academy Pilot. With Salm facing four undamaged Imperial fighters alone, I conceded.

In the second match, I decided to take a three-ship list: Garven Dreis, a Rookie Pilot, and "Dutch" Vander with an Ion Cannon. I made a major maneuvering mistake with the Rookie and ended up on the wrong side of the asteroid field; Garven and Dutch engaged the four TIEs alone for two rounds. They fared better than Wedge and Salm, due to less spectacularly bad rolling, but it merely prolonged the fight: all three Rebels were destroyed without a single Imperial casualty.

***

So, if you were me and preparing for matchups against a group of local players who have learned to use TIE swarms to fairly good effect, what would you do differently next time?



#2 Stormtrooper721

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:06 AM

Try a Rookie X-Wing and three Gold Squadron Y-Wings for 75 points.

Stay clear of asteroids, approach very slow (moving forward 1) to keep from being in close (where the TIEs superior maneuverability shows), and just trade firepower. Four Rebel starfighters will now only face at most six TIE Fighters. Hope the shields hold.


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#3 Duraham

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

Vorpal Sword said:

 

So, if you were me and preparing for matchups against a group of local players who have learned to use TIE swarms to fairly good effect, what would you do differently next time?

 

 

 

if you have a 2 skill point pilot and your opponent doesnt have any academy pilots, slam your 2 pointer straight into his formation. This will force him to either break apart his formation, or maintain the formation and have nobody except the front 2 ships being able to take actions.

 

 

otherwise, general suggestions I could offer would be to go slow on the initial approach so that both of you are at range 3, then afterwards speed up and try to catch him at range 1 so you can fry him before he even gets a chance to fire back. Also try hiding behind rocks, TIEs with 2 atk dice most likely aren't able to deal much damage with a rock in-between



#4 magadizer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:49 AM

 Without much reflection on this point, I would suggest that Rebels may be at a disadvantage in the 75-80 point range if you take only 2 souped up star pilots.

I find 66 points a good range for small battles, then jump up to 100 points after that for the next level of scale. Others may disagree.


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#5 Duraham

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:36 AM

 i personally use 55 points. that way you either get 2 soso rebel pilots, 2 beefed up mooks, or 1 super buff named and 1 vanilla mook. for imperials, 55 points prevents the 5 TIE rush, limiting the highest number of stuff their can field to 4 ships, ie. 3 mooks and 1 good named, or 2-3 soso named and 1 mook, or darth vader and 2 mooks



#6 qwertyuiop

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

 Why the heck am I seeing people run Swarm Tactics more than once lately?



#7 Fish76

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

 The recent FAQ pointed out that Swarm Tactics could be "daisy chained".  So, if you have a skill 8 pilot, 2 skill 4s and a skill 1 and give the three better pilots Swarm Tactics, you essentially get 4 skill 8 pilots (for as long as that pilot is alive).



#8 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:49 AM

qwertyuiop said:

 Why the heck am I seeing people run Swarm Tactics more than once lately?

In this case, the Imperial player was using it to effectively get two pilots with 8 skill and two pilots with 9 skill, giving him 4 early attacks. It didn't do anything for him against Wedge+Salm, but against the three-ship Rebel list it effectively meant he was moving first and shooting first, every round.



#9 Duraham

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

 However, as swarm tactics requires you to be within range 1 of each other, it becomes rather easily disrupted when overlap occurs, especially if you are also playing with obstacles. 



#10 Ologotai

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:55 AM

We played a 75 point game on Friday.

I took Wedge and two Red Squadron X-Wings against a Storm Squadron Tie/Advanced, two Obsidian Ties and two Academy Ties.

All of the TIes were downed, Wedge was intact, one Red squadron had lost his shields and the other had lost his shields and taken a single point of damage.  The TIE/Advanced with his Academy wingman got isolated for two turns meaning I could whittle them down before the main furball commenced.

Cheers

Andy



#11 The_Brown_Bomber

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:09 PM

id try this 75 pt rebel 3 X-Wing build:

wedge (29) swarm tactics (2) = 31

2x rookie pilot (21 each) each with r2 atromech (1x2) = 44

its pretty offensive, wedge will draw alot of attention but if u keep the rookies close you should get off two target locks every round. just go for their name pilots, esp holwrunner and vader first. push your rookies hard as stress from red mounouvres is less of a worry with r2 astromechs. using the sharp 2 turn when u r stressed to remove stress is very good. 

 

 


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#12 Sodapopj

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

I think the Tie Swarm is a tough build to beat in the Wave one game. I play rebels too and I was struggling against the swarm. Now I am by no means the best player, but I thought I would pass along some of the lessons I have learned.

1) 100 points all the way - I find the lower the points the more it favors the imperials. They have very cheap ships, and you do not.

2) Asteriods - Always play in Asteriods against the swarm and try to clog up the middle of the table. What you need to do is get then out of formation and Asteriods can help do that.

3) More Ships are better - I find 4 ship rebel builds fend off the swarm better than the three ship build. When you fly 3 ship and you lose one it is a big deal. With is 4 ships the loss is still tough but not as tough.

4)KILL HOWLRUNNER - She is the key to this list and if you can take her down you have made a steep climb a little easier. That reroll is gross.

5)Protons - They read better than they are. One shot 4 points. I can see a case for Horton or Wedge, but in general it's better to save the points to get you another ship.

6) Y-wings - Ion cannons are great as they allow you to shoot regardless to where you are facing. Usually games are make a pass shoot shoot shoot, set up for the second pass shoot shoot shoot. the Y-wing I find shoots all the time while others are setting up for a pass and that is worth a lot.

 

I played a Tie Swarm after I got a bit tired of my rebels. I just flew my ties in formation and diced my opponent to death. There are so many shots that eventually you are going to get something passed the defence. This is why Howlrunner is so important to the list because she makes all the dice that little bit more deadly. I found when I one games with the swarm I concentrated on one rebel and fired at that one guy until he was dead. When I lost games it was always because I bumped my own ships and had to break formation because I couldn't position my ships in a way that brought them all to bear on one rebel. I guess the key to beating the swarm is making them break that formation, cause that should cause bumps and kinks in their game plan.



#13 Parakitor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

I definitely agree with what has been said about "Howlrunner," but remember to be flexible. In a recent game I played I was able to disrupt the enemy formation, meaning she was too far away to grant rerolls. At that point, I picked off the other ships as shots became available, and it worked pretty well. It just happened that I could predict the movement of my opponent's other ships better than I could predict "Howlrunner"s maneuvers, so I took them out instead. In the end, it was "Howlrunner" vs. my Vader and two Academy Pilots, and she got scared and (accidentally) flew off the table.

So just remember, one way to disrupt "Howlrunner's" pilot ability is to deprive her of allies…though I wouldn't recommend that as plan A ;)

P.S. Yes, this was an Imp vs. Imp match, but it was very insightful. I should probably also add that I had two more ships in my squad than he did (6 vs. 4), which just proves the point of the OP: TIE swarms are tough to beat!


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#14 executor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:45 PM

Sodapopj said:

I think the Tie Swarm is a tough build to beat in the Wave one game. I play rebels too and I was struggling against the swarm. Now I am by no means the best player, but I thought I would pass along some of the lessons I have learned.

1) 100 points all the way - I find the lower the points the more it favors the imperials. They have very cheap ships, and you do not.

2) Asteriods - Always play in Asteriods against the swarm and try to clog up the middle of the table. What you need to do is get then out of formation and Asteriods can help do that.

3) More Ships are better - I find 4 ship rebel builds fend off the swarm better than the three ship build. When you fly 3 ship and you lose one it is a big deal. With is 4 ships the loss is still tough but not as tough.

4)KILL HOWLRUNNER - She is the key to this list and if you can take her down you have made a steep climb a little easier. That reroll is gross.

5)Protons - They read better than they are. One shot 4 points. I can see a case for Horton or Wedge, but in general it's better to save the points to get you another ship.

6) Y-wings - Ion cannons are great as they allow you to shoot regardless to where you are facing. Usually games are make a pass shoot shoot shoot, set up for the second pass shoot shoot shoot. the Y-wing I find shoots all the time while others are setting up for a pass and that is worth a lot.

 

I played a Tie Swarm after I got a bit tired of my rebels. I just flew my ties in formation and diced my opponent to death. There are so many shots that eventually you are going to get something passed the defence. This is why Howlrunner is so important to the list because she makes all the dice that little bit more deadly. I found when I one games with the swarm I concentrated on one rebel and fired at that one guy until he was dead. When I lost games it was always because I bumped my own ships and had to break formation because I couldn't position my ships in a way that brought them all to bear on one rebel. I guess the key to beating the swarm is making them break that formation, cause that should cause bumps and kinks in their game plan.

 

great post

 

howlrunner a bit more deadly? you're words aren't kind enough.. she essentially boosts the firepower of about 50% more of all the ships within range 1

howlrunner is just scary in tie swarm lists.. that's why she's included in every one


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Empire: 8 Tie Fighters, 2 Tie Advanced, 9 Tie Interceptors, 3 Tie Bombers, 1 Lambda Shuttle, 3 Firespray 31's, 2 Tie Phantoms, 2 Tie Defenders





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