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Please help me design "Gods in Talisman"


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#1 Uvatha

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

Gods In Talisman

Rules:

Start of game every player draws a God card and places it face up with all the other God cards.

No God starts the game as “The Powerful One” but of course this could be one Gods special power.

Before any player prays they must declare a god they are praying too. Each god has its own alignment just like characters and if a good character prays to an evil god they must first lose a fate if they have one. The same for evil to good, neutral characters are free to pray for any god and any character is free to pray to a neutral god.

If the pray result is not either ignored or the player is not enslaved then after the pray result the player places a faith counter “the same as dragon scales” on that god they prayed to.

Once 3 faith counters are on a god they become “The Powerful One” and all 3 counters are returned to the pool and a crown counter “the same as the dragon crown” is placed on the god. God becoming “The Powerful One” and losing The Powerful One” title is the same as the Dragon King being crowned in Dragons.

When a god is “The Powerful one” they have a ability that takes effect until another god takes “The Powerful One” title away from them.

So what I need is help making the cards designing the different gods (good, evil, neutral balanced)in which I need about 12+. And designing the 13 faith counters and “The Powerful One”counter.

I’m thinking of making the God cards much like the Dragon cards but a description of the god in the rules section and the Gods “The Powerful One” ability in the Dragon Rage part.

Ideas, comments?
 



#2 Uvatha

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Ok…

Did 9 Gods..

No names as yet, need help with that,,

Used dragon cards from eons but will make personal back for the god cards..

Hopefully "The Powerful One" powers are aok needs playtesting.

 

Change of standard rules for Gods.

Praying to put Faith counters on God cards can not be done by characters special abilities. Good characters MUST lose a fate to pray to a evil god or they can't, evil characters MUST lose a life to pray to a good god etc etc.

Make only two faith counters are needed to turn a God into "The Powerful One", Make a rule that allows players at start of game to draw 2 or 3 gods each (need more gods of course :)).

Greater Gods: These gods (coming soon) will need 3 faith counters to become "The Powerful One" but their effects will be a one off BIG BANG effect. Doing some brainstorming :).

 

Of couse 1 encounter number is good, 2 is neutral and 3 is evil. Might either put god alignment either at bottom of card, in the God middle part (although I want to put "God of ???" there) or just leave the encounter number to be alignment? need input on that I think?

Pictures might need editting. I need about 12 to 18 gods really these are the basic ones each alignment has its counter effect.



#3 JCHendee

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:45 AM

I think it would be better to set the cost of praying to any god of differing alignment from the character as 1 Life or Fate.  This puts Neutral characters in the mix of costs and makes things simpler. Use Fate and LIves as the standard as well for marking all Gods; Fate or Lives used to pray to a god of a different alignment may not be used to add to that Gods token pool. 

Now establish a prayer die roll for each god, perhaps, as an option vs. the prayer rolls found at the Chapel and Graveyard or elsewhere.  When paying, a character may pray to a particular God in play vs. the roll table on the spaces or cards. This might also be used in place of the alignment based influences listed on the cards… or use both.  Give players some more options, for what you have here is too heavy handed for my group or the test groups I used for past fan expansion developemtn; they wouldn't use these cards as is. As to putting gods in play…

Designate that only three gods can be in play in any game. Designate an area where they are set out for all to see. Only a character who prays can allow its player to draw from the Gods deck. If all God "slots" are full, the player may either discard the drawn God, or replace one God with no tokens on it… or maybe one God that doesn't have enough tokens on it.  Sooner or later, all players will have to pay attention to which Gods stay in play… and sooner or later, the divine cast for the game's story will be set and cannot be changed anymore.

And nine deities are enough for now.



#4 Uvatha

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

JCHendee said:

I think it would be better to set the cost of praying to any god of differing alignment from the character as 1 Life or Fate.  This puts Neutral characters in the mix of costs and makes things simpler. Use Fate and LIves as the standard as well for marking all Gods; Fate or Lives used to pray to a god of a different alignment may not be used to add to that Gods token pool. 

Now establish a prayer die roll for each god, perhaps, as an option vs. the prayer rolls found at the Chapel and Graveyard or elsewhere.  When paying, a character may pray to a particular God in play vs. the roll table on the spaces or cards. This might also be used in place of the alignment based influences listed on the cards… or use both.  Give players some more options, for what you have here is too heavy handed for my group or the test groups I used for past fan expansion developemtn; they wouldn't use these cards as is. As to putting gods in play…

Designate that only three gods can be in play in any game. Designate an area where they are set out for all to see. Only a character who prays can allow its player to draw from the Gods deck. If all God "slots" are full, the player may either discard the drawn God, or replace one God with no tokens on it… or maybe one God that doesn't have enough tokens on it.  Sooner or later, all players will have to pay attention to which Gods stay in play… and sooner or later, the divine cast for the game's story will be set and cannot be changed anymore.

And nine deities are enough for now.

Adding Neutral characters to the cost mix is a great idea. I have to look into it.

Don't truly understand your second point sounds way to complicated? Your third point is interesting 3 gods at a time hmmm drawing from the God deck when praying good idea.

Thanks for your input.. Shame its to heavy handed for your group…



#5 0beron

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:40 PM

I like the idea of using fate tokens and as markers, but fate itself doesn't represent or proxy as well for alignments because there are three.

Fate should be Order vs Chaos. Other than that I like the thought going into this.



#6 JCHendee

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:03 AM

DELETED FOULED POST. CORRECTIONS TO FOLLOW.



#7 JCHendee

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:05 AM

UVATHA: Don't truly understand your second point sounds way to complicated?

Its about having an alternative "praying" result table on the God's card… in addition to any other effect the deity would have if it gains dominance.

NOTE: another way to work the 3 God system would be:

When a player is allowed to draw a new God (and perhaps that is an option when "praying" instead of a getting roll result(?)), the player may replace the God with the lowest number of markers.  This could be used instead of a specified number of markers to become the "powerful" one, which is part of what worries me, even without specified additional powers stated. Don't make these gods predetermine the game's winner based on alignment. Make a new system that players have to continuously work at in order to keep their benefits flowing.

This way, no God is invulnerable from being replaced.  Players could beef up another deity to surpass the one in the lead with markers. Then that lesser marked one is ripe to be replaced… but with a new God that has no markers and is therefor very vulnerable.  Just another notion for added continued competition… among players instead of Gods.  Obviously this option would mean no God would ever be permanent automatically. 

NOTE: Consider using the term "Deity," for this avoids having to use two separate gender based terms for correctionnes (i.e. "God" or "Goddess")

UVATHA: Shame its to heavy handed for your group…

Don't worry about it. You're not desiging specifically for us but for everyone. That's why i suggested a few options that might make things more adaptable to individual group preferences. Not necessary, but just a thought. And though I know small cards are more convenient, especially for how much space this game takes up… Maybe consider larger character sized cards. 

If the separate prayer tables for differing deities is of any interest, you would have room to list (1) the deities standard influence (2) additional influences it has when it gains a certian number of markers, and optionally (3) its own prayer roll results… like found on the Chapel and Graveyard.

Again, just some notions offered and certainly not required.

 



#8 JCHendee

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

To continue, as an example only of some of the further alternatives mentioned…

Deity of War (Evil)

Alternate Prayer Table

  1. Lose 1 Life
  2. Ignored
  3. Ignored
  4. Gain a Sword Purchase Card
  5. Gain 1 Life
  6. Teleport to the space of any other character in your Region to encounter that character.

INFLUENCES by number of tokens gained

1 = Add 1 to any roll to save a Life with an Armour card
3 = Add 1 to your Battle roll when attacking another character
5 = Add 1 to your Battle rolls


In this way, characters of differing alignments would have to work at getting a deity beefed up in order to gain further and further benefits.  If we assume this one is in play with the most tokens/markers at some point…

If there is no way for any god to be automatically permanent, characters of other alignments could replace a deity with lesser tokens through a random draw in the hope of getting one that works for their alignment.  They could then beef it up to higher level than this one… and then exhange an option to pray for drawing a deity card to knock this (or another one) out of play.  Is that clear, or have I not explained some missing detail.

And this is all about the players (characters) having to work through devotions to get the benefits of a potent deity.  Afterall, deities are only as powerful as the faith of those who follow them.

If any illustration were left out, like on Quest and Reward cards… I think all of the above might fit on a standard sized Talisman card… maybe.

Character Options when "Praying"

  1. Use the standard results table on the current space or Adventure card, or…
  2. Use the result table on any Deity in play that matches your Alignment, or…
  3. Draw a Deity card and replace the Deity in play with the lowest number of tokens; if two or more Deities have the same lowest amount of tokens, choose one; or…
  4. Sacrifice a Fate or Life to place on a Deity that matches your Alignment; if the marked Deity has gained enough tokens to change its "Influence", state so to all players

GENERAL RULES NOTE: If any player forgets to apply a deitiy's influence during a roll or as other option in its turn's activities, that player may not do so after the fact or retroactively. Such is the penalty for a lack of awareness (devotion).

It's up in the air whether or not alternative table results should be allowed when praying at the Temple.  I would say not, but that's just me. The Temple has always been seen in my group(s) as praying to all divines collectively… so its table with a 2D6 roll is different and not alignment connected.

That's enough spitballing from me, as I'm already late in getting to my daily grind.



#9 Uvatha

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

Woooo, alot of ideas…

JCHendee: Deity rename is a great idea, larger cards and extra pray effects are great ideas too.. But its not something I want to do the pray effects now are good anyways. Larger cards is a idea but I'm just worried about play area and because of small text there is no need. 3 different strength of infuences is way to much the way I'm thinking. Keep it simple but fun..

I do like the Character Options when "Praying" thats something I need to set out when redoing the rules. Need a draw/discard God/Deity effect maybe discarding a fate/life or not praying..

Here is 12 gods… Cough Deities

Trying to balance out "The Powerful One" effects need feedback on that at mo..

 



#10 JCHendee

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:55 AM

All understood, and certainly do what you think best.  I'll watch now and stay on focus for what you have going.  Do try to setup up some rules for us to look at concerning how players interact with and activate deities. That's the next official detail I think most of us following you want to know a liitle more about…  once you decide how it should work in the details.



#11 Alarming Prez

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:44 PM

My friends and I (I have friends) are going to try "Deities Of Talisman." Our interpretation is teams or individuals each pick a deity they worship selecting from the crown of command end bosses. Each time you or someone on your team prays at a temple the deity you worship gets a dragon scale. The dragonscales stack and don't go away after three. When you proceed to the crown of command you face the opposing player's deity.



#12 Uvatha

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

Alarming Prez said:

My friends and I (I have friends) are going to try "Deities Of Talisman." Our interpretation is teams or individuals each pick a deity they worship selecting from the crown of command end bosses. Each time you or someone on your team prays at a temple the deity you worship gets a dragon scale. The dragonscales stack and don't go away after three. When you proceed to the crown of command you face the opposing player's deity.

Now thats interesting. You could have a section of gods have faith tokens instead of dragon scales do the old 3 to become king thing then with 6 players max you would only need 13 faith tokens. Alignment could dictate what gods you can pray to each player could get a choice from 2 gods or one at random at start of game so about 12-18 gods would be good. Or just three one evil one good and one neutral. I dont like the ending thing I think if gods had a ability that kicks in when they are king it would be alot better. Make balancing rules to fix some of the strange stuff around in the game. Say to if you complete a quest you can remove all the faith counters from a god or even add one instead of praying so there is another method instead of praying.






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