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Custom B-Wing pilots and extras


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#1 Skywalker2B

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

I've played this game a few times now with a few friends. As with most of the games we play, we love to think up customs. With Star Wars, the B-Wing has always been one of my favorite fighters (the A-wing being second). So, I did a lot of research on the wook and whereever else I could get some stats on the B-Wing compared to the other ships and came up with the following. I found 5 characters that where mentioned to have flown the B-Wing at some point. I should also add that I tried to not to make the B too powerful and incorporate the difficulty in flying it, but that it was designed as a heavy assault fighter. I also took into account my experience flying the ship in the X-Wing flight sim games on the computer from years ago. So far, it's only been play tested once. Unfortunately, our opponents felt it was more important to target Wedge than my B-wing and Garvin. So, we didn't get to see how well the B could stand up to a TIE assault and it survived…along with my two X-Wings. That all being said, I'd like to get some feed back on what you all think of what I came up with:

First, the move dial: http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

 

Second, the pilots:

(8) Netrem Pollard – Cost 24
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Treat all 1 moves as green.
Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 2 Modifications, Leader


(7) Nera Dantels – Cost 23
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Action Phase: May do 2 Barrel Rolls, then add a Stress token.
Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 2 Modifications


(6) Lancer One – Cost 21
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
May spend your [Target Lock] to fire both Ion Cannons and primary weapons at the same target. You may not use primary weapons next round.
Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 2 Modifications

(5) Nova Four – Cost 20
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 2 Modifications

(4) Nova Three – Cost 19
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 2 Modifications

Third, What I call "Modifications":

Cost   Title

4         Auto Cannons (4) (range: 1-2)
Replaces Primary Lasers. May change one of your blank results to a [hit] result.
 

4          Ion Cannons (3) (range: 1-2)
Attack: Attack 1 ship. If this attack hits, the ship suffers 1 damage, receives 1 ion token and may not do [barrel roll] or [evade] next round. Cancel all dice rolls.
 

3          Shield Recharge
Perform a green 1 move, gain 1 shield (not to exceed max). You may not use primary weapons this round.
 

3          Targeting System
Action: You may perform an additional action. It must be a [Target Lock] (not to exceed 2 active target locks).
 

2          Energy Redirect
Lose 2 shields. You may fire your primary weapons twice this round.

And 1 new Torpedo card:

5         Advanced Torpedo (4) (range: 2)

Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack. You may change up to 2 [hit] results to [critical hit] results. 



#2 Vonpenguin

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

Looks good. Personally I'd up the cost a little and increase the primary weapon by one, possibly dropping one of the torpedoes in the process. B-Wings are pimped out when it comes to guns. I might also homebrew a special "canon" slot for straight firing ions and lasers and extra powerful blasters.



#3 Garven Dreis

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

In-universe I believe the B-Wings were slower and less maneuverable than even Y-Wings. However IIRC they can still take a beating. Maybe male the 3 Straight forward white and It'd be golden.



#4 FrutigerSans

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

Garven Dreis said:

In-universe I believe the B-Wings were slower and less maneuverable than even Y-Wings. However IIRC they can still take a beating. Maybe male the 3 Straight forward white and It'd be golden.

 

I swear they must have retconned the B-wing to be inferior in maneuverability than the Y-Wing. In X-wing and X-Wing Alliance Games, B-wings were faster than Y-Wings, had about 90% of the speed and maneuverability of an X-Wing. 

After all the whole point of the Gyroscope system was to increase the kind of attack maneuvers the ship could make. Why go design that system if it results in a slower craft?



#5 Skywalker2B

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:14 AM

Vonpenguin said:

Looks good. Personally I'd up the cost a little and increase the primary weapon by one, possibly dropping one of the torpedoes in the process. B-Wings are pimped out when it comes to guns. I might also homebrew a special "canon" slot for straight firing ions and lasers and extra powerful blasters.

Thanks! I kept the cost so that, fully loaded, a B-Wing will run you around 50+ points. That's 10+ points more than the highest costing X-wing. As for adding a primary gun, that's why I created the "Auto Cannons" that replace the primary cannons…making them 4 vs. 3, but you lose out on distance shooting. Again, I kept with the concept that it's a heavy assault fighter, which usually means it has to geet up close to you to do the most damage.

And, the Y-wing has 2 torpedos, so I gave the B-wing one more.

I also should have mentioned…the Ion Cannons (note: NOT Ion Cannon "Turret"), are not 360 degrees. They fire forward in the normal firing arc only. I also read up on what Ions do and they knock out the flight controls…so, naturally, a barrel roll or evade manuever would be impossible if your ship has been hit by Ion Cannons.

Garven,

Depending on your source material, the B-Wing was supposed to be just a tad faster and more manueverable than the Y-wing. But, it was supposed to be a more difficult to fly. That's why there are more red manuevers. And, with more red, you would need some green to "unstress" the pilot. So, I figured flying straight ahead should be a pretty simple "manuever". And, you'll notice that I didn't give the B-wing 4 manuevers (except for the U-turn, which has been suggested to be a 3 vs. 4, but I thought it would take the larger ship longer to turn around, so I made it a 4). I added the barrel roll to answer for the gyroscopic cockpit pod.

So…with that added explanation, what do you all think now? BTW, thanks for the feedback so far. I know a guy that is playtesting wave 3, but won't even tell me what ships are in the set. :(



#6 Skywalker2B

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

Any more feedback? I would love to hear everyone's comments.

A friend of mine made some custom bases using wood, a nail for the stock, a ball of glue to keep the nail straight and to keep the card from moving, and tiny magnets to hold the ship on (he used the old Galoob Micro Machines…of course the ships are smaller than FF, but they did the trick). He even added small points to the base to align the movement markers. He did a really good job, making sure they are all the same size and all. He did it so that, at some point, we could have a real big battle without having to buy multiple ship/expansions. That's what we used for the B-Wing…for which I even made some base cards. Hopefully, we'll be play testing again sometime over the next few weekends. I actually have some pictures from our last game. I'll try to post it here sometime. 



#7 Mako13

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

I posted some stats for the Tie Defender, in another thread, since I was interested in seeing how it would compare vs. other fighters.

The B-Wing also looks to be a good opponent for the Tie-D, even though it is slower, since it is heavily armed, and shielded too, with good hull armor.

In looking at the FFG stats for the Slave I, as well as stats for Star Wars fighters from other sources, it seems to me that the B-Wing should be an even better match for Boba Fett's ship, e.g. the speeds, depending upon the sources are virtually the same, Slave I has just slightly better maneuverability (72 DPF vs. 65 for the B-Wing), and their hull and shielding values match up almost identically as well.

So, given that, it appears to me that the B-Wing will have the following values, or very close to them:

Attack = 3

Def = 1

Hull = 6

Shields = 4 or 5 (there were two values for this online, so perhaps an upgrade card for the higher value will be provided, e.g. 100 SBD and 125 SBD respectively).  Should be a 5, but am not sure they will go with that, due to playability concerns.

Given that, and using the reverse-engineered stats I've come up with for Squad Build Points, I think the B-Wings should cost approximately the following number of points, without mods for playability, special weapons, or the pilots, e.g. 30 points for the Shield 4 rating, and 35 points for the Shield 5 rating, plus the pilot's skill.

From what I've seen on other fighters, and ships, my Reverse Engineered Point Values come out pretty close for the fighters.  They also seem to work well for the Millenium Falcon, and presumably Slave I, assuming a 10% bump upwards in points for those, due to their pilots special abilities, and play options.

It'll be interesting to see how much the Slave I costs, but I'm guessing it'll run around 43 points with Boba Fett as the pilot (skill 8, presumably, as shown on the flight stand).  My figures show a cost of 39 points for him and his ship, plus a presumed 10% bump in points to aid playbalance.

For the Y-Wings, my formula came out a bit high, in terms of cost points, but it appears they cut the points by about 25% - 33%, depending upon the skill of the pilots, due to its anemic maneuverability of 1.  My guess is that the same will occur if they also give the B-Wing a maneuver of 1, instead of a 2 (which seems likely to me), since it is a heavy fighter.  So, I think the following point values will apply for the basic pilots and B-Wings:

Shield 4 Fighters

-----------------------

30 Pts. + Pilot Skill Rating in Points (x1 per point of skill) = Base rating, minus the playability modifier, e.g.

Skill 1 Pilot = 30 + 2 = 32 points x 67% = 21 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Skill 2 Pilot = 30 + 4 = 34 points x .70 = 24 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Skill 6 Pilot = 30 + 6 = 36 points x 75% = 27 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Note - these values could be slightly too low, due to a different modifier system being used than for the Y-Wings, for playbalance, especially since the B-Wing can carry twice as many Proton Torpedoes as the Y-Wing.  It also has 3 x Ion Cannons facing forward, instead of 2, so not sure how that would change the rules for them.

 

Shield 5 Fighters

-----------------------

35 Pts. + Pilot Skill Rating in Points (x1 per point of skill) = Base rating, minus the playability modifier, e.g.

Skill 1 Pilot = 35 + 2 = 37 points x 67% =  25 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Skill 2 Pilot = 35 + 4 = 39 points x .70 =  27 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Skill 6 Pilot = 35 + 6 = 41 points x 75% =  31 Points (not including special weapons, or abilities)

Note - final values for these may vary, as specified above.

 

It'd be interesting to see how three of these would fare vs. 2 x Tie Defenders, especially if the Shield 5 rated B-Wings are used. 

As mentioned in previous postings, presumably these are just slightly faster, or slower than the Y-Wing, depending upon which sources you believe, but due to their heavier Hull armor, and Shielding, I imagine they will be even less maneuverable than it.  Probably not enough to rate it as a Zero maneuverability fighter though. 

I agree with one poster's increased number of Red maneuvers for the B-Wing, and imagine that in at least some cases, it will not be able to make sharp turns at all (even as a Red maneuver).  Perhaps it will only be able to do that at the slowest speed, and then must use either straight, or easy turns at faster speeds.  It will probably take a long time to pull a 180 degree turn, so will only be able to do that at its fastest speed.

 

 

 



#8 Skywalker2B

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:43 AM

Ok, so we play tested my B-Wing again this weekend. This time I used the lowest cost/skill pilot with 2 Adv. Proton Torps, Auto Cannons, and Shield Recharge (didn't bother with the Ion Cannons since I also ran a Y-Wing…Dutch). Along with the B, I ran Dutch with Ion Cannon Turret and R5-D8 and Luke with Squad Leader and the droid that lets you re-acquire a Target Lock (don't remember its name). My opponent ran Vader and 4 TIE's. I don't remember the build, but it had a couple Marksmen and the card that allows lower skilled pilots to act as the higher skilled one.

By the second round he was on me and took out Luke's shields. He also took my Y's shields down. It was a rough round for me. The next round I was able to take out one of the TIE's with fire from two of my ships, but he got Luke down to only 1 Hull left and put Hull damage on my Y. I should note that, the whole game, I only hit once with my Y's Ion Cannon…and that was to destroy a TIE. Every other attempt failed. Luke and my B were able to take out the rest of his TIE's because Luke kept evading all hits. My B's shields took one hit too. The Squad Leader and R5 allowed my Y to survive a couple more rounds, but it didn't really do any damage to him. It acted more as a target to allow my B to get into position. I had it down to Vader vs. my 3 ships, but Vader took out the Y and Luke. The last round I had a target lock on Vader from the previous round, we went head to head at range 1 to each other. He got only 1 hit on my shields, using one of the 2 Focuses he had on Vader. My turn. I used my target lock and ended up with hits (that never happens for me)…enough to take out Vader (his shields were down to 1. The B was the last ship on the board.

After the game we talked about the B and decided that it was not over powered. That last shot on Vader was just a lot of possibilities all aligning…especially my dice roll. Before that roll, I wasn't rolling too well. I used both Adv. Protons, but missed with both! I have the worst dice rolls when I use Torps! And, I never used my shield recharge, so that was wasted. However, if someone actually attacks my B, shield recharge would come in handy.

I look forward to playtesting some more. One of these games, my opponent will actually attack the B. That, for the most part, seems to be a problem. My opponents focus on the other fighters and leave the B until the end (if at all).



#9 Grave13

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

B-Wings are to this day my all time favorite Rebel fighter ship. I pray that FFG will add the B-Wings into the X-WIng minature game. And when that day comes I will stop running Empire so much and run me some B-Wings  I hope they make the B-Wings bad ass. I hope some of these stats are put in on the actual ships if and when they get made.  Like what im seeing on here for stats



#10 Skywalker2B

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:49 AM

In light of the spoiled wave 2 ships' cards, I guess I can replace Ion Cannons and Shield Recharge with the official modification cards. Bummer, as I thought my Ion Cannons text was much closer to the affects  an Ion burst would have on a ship's controls.



#11 pks

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

Nifty! I love the B-Wing. Came to this thread by searching for "custom pilots FFG X-Wing" and I was not disappointed. I've got two things to ask.

Should your maneuver dial have 16 maneuvers? For something that is not as maneuverable as an X-Wing, it has more available maneuvers. X-Wings, Y-Wings, and TIE Advanced all have 15 maneuvers on the dial. The TIE Fighter has 16. 

is there any plan to write up an Admiral Ackbar pilot card? He helped design the ship and flew one as his personal craft for a number of years. He might not be the greatest pilot to sit at the yoke of a starfighter but he is famous and notable in the Star Wars universe.



#12 Grave13

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

My questions are , Are we getting a B-Wing? Ireally hope so.  and can they at least have agility of 2 instead of one. granted these were supposed to be faster than Y-Wings.



#13 Rogue Kiwi

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:42 AM

FrutigerSans said:

Garven Dreis said:

 

In-universe I believe the B-Wings were slower and less maneuverable than even Y-Wings. However IIRC they can still take a beating. Maybe male the 3 Straight forward white and It'd be golden.

 

 

 

I swear they must have retconned the B-wing to be inferior in maneuverability than the Y-Wing. In X-wing and X-Wing Alliance Games, B-wings were faster than Y-Wings, had about 90% of the speed and maneuverability of an X-Wing. 

After all the whole point of the Gyroscope system was to increase the kind of attack maneuvers the ship could make. Why go design that system if it results in a slower craft?

 

Perhaps this will help it is from the return of the Jedi Sketchbook from original production notes for the effects team.



#14 Mako13

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

The B-Wing is also rated at 90 - 91 MGLT as well, from various sources, including Wookieepedia, which is usually pretty reliable, so ranks right up there with the Y-Wing.



#15 Skywalker2B

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:44 AM

pks said:

Nifty! I love the B-Wing. Came to this thread by searching for "custom pilots FFG X-Wing" and I was not disappointed. I've got two things to ask.

Should your maneuver dial have 16 maneuvers? For something that is not as maneuverable as an X-Wing, it has more available maneuvers. X-Wings, Y-Wings, and TIE Advanced all have 15 maneuvers on the dial. The TIE Fighter has 16. 

is there any plan to write up an Admiral Ackbar pilot card? He helped design the ship and flew one as his personal craft for a number of years. He might not be the greatest pilot to sit at the yoke of a starfighter but he is famous and notable in the Star Wars universe.

PKS, glad you like what I've tried to do with the B-Wing. I thought about your comments. As for the maneuvers, I think dropping the 3 speed left and right 90 degrees turns, and changing the 4 speed reverse to a 3 speed reverse…giving you a total of 14 maneuvers…might better reflect the B-Wing's lower speed and maneuverability. I also think perhaps making the 3 straight white vs. green would be ok too. I'm also thinking that maybe also adding a red 4 reverse (for a total of 15), like the Firespray-31, might work too.

I had thought about Ackbar, but the game, so far, seems to be set in the OT timeframe where the idea is to simulate battles in the SW universe. So, while Ackbar helped design the B-Wing and used one as his personal craft, I didn't see an Admiral taking part in ship to ship dog-fights.

Grave13, as for agility 2…at a lower speed, juking and weaving aren't going to help you out too much, so I think agility 1 works here. But, you do have more shields to be able to take more hits. And, with the possibility to gain shields back, or even increase them, I think agility 1 won't hurt too bad.

Rogue Kiwi, thanks for posting that chart. However, I think that the newer material that came out since the Jedi Sketchbook (which I have…somewhere) is a better representation of the various ships. By that chart, the Falcon is the slowest hunk of junk in the galaxy. ;) 

As I stated in an earlier post, I made some changes based on the revealed cards for the wave 2 ships. Here, now, is what I've come up with. So, unless we get some spoilers from wave 3, I think these would be my final custom for the B-Wing. Of note, I changed the "2 Modifications" to 1 Cannon and 1 Modification (I know there is no icon for "Modification", but we don't know exactly how they work yet…or at least I don't). The Cannon icon should be the same icon as the Firespray-31's Ion Cannons and Heavy Laser Cannons. As I said before, I ditched my version of the Ion Cannons with FFG's official Ion Cannons on the Firespray-31. However, Auto Cannons remain, but changed a wee bit. This way, I think they are less of a game changer, but still balanced. Oh, and I changed the Ion and Auto Cannons to the Cannon type cards vs. Modifications.

I decided that Shield Recharge is not the same as FFG's Shield Upgrade modification card (see Falcon). However, I did change it to be a one use card, as well as the Energy Redirect. And Targeting System would allow you to maintain 2 target locks on 2 different ships. Ok, that's all. Here are my changes:  

(8) Netrem Pollard – Cost 24
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Treat all 1 moves as green.
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 1 Cannon, 1 Modification, Leader


(7) Nera Dantels – Cost 23
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Action Phase: May do 2 Barrel Rolls, then add a Stress token.
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 1 Cannon, 1 Modification


(6) Lancer One – Cost 21
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
May spend your [Target Lock] to fire both Ion Cannons and primary weapons at the same target. You may not use primary weapons next round.
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 1 Cannon, 1 Modification

(5) Nova Four – Cost 20
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 1 Cannon, 1 Modification

(4) Nova Three – Cost 19
Primary – 3
Agility – 1
Hull – 3
Shields – 5
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Build: 3 Torpedoes, 1 Cannon, 1 Modification


Cannon Upgrade Cards (same icon as on the Firespray-31)

Cost   Title

3         Auto Cannons (4) (range: 1-3)
Replaces Primary Weapon.
 

4          Ion Cannons (3) (range: 1-2)
(same card as comes with the Firespray-31)
 

"Modification" cards

3          Shield Recharge
You may not use primary weapons this round. Gain 1 shield (not to exceed max), then discard this card.
 

3          Targeting System
Action: You may perform an additional action. It must be a [Target Lock] (not to exceed 2 active target locks).
 

2          Energy Redirect
Lose 2 shields. You may fire your primary weapons twice this round, then discard this card.

And 1 new Torpedo card:

5         Advanced Torpedo (4) (range: 2)

Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack. You may change up to 2 [hit] results to [critical hit] results.



#16 BaronZaltor

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

Personally I'd give B-Wings Evasion rather than Barrel Roll.

They have a gyroscopic cockpit which can make them tricky to hit, but it doesnt change their central position.  So Evasion is a good representation of that.

But if  X-wings arent manuverable enough to barrel roll, than I certainly can't imagine B-wings getting a full plane shift ability.



#17 Acebaur

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

Not bad, but I'll make some suggestions.

First your points are too low(though I like the build of the ship). Based on Shadowjak's formula, which is very accurate so far for fighters(with one or two exceptions likely for game balance) The 8 skill pilot should be 34 points and the 4 skill should be 29. With those numbers we are creaping into Firespray catagory, so we could probably give it a discount of a couple of about 4 points. No way should you get a named pilot for 1 point more than a generic Y-Wing. Shields are huge in this game and this sucker has 5. True it only has 1 agility, but each shield is worth like 4.5 points.

No way should a B-Wing have barrel roll. The A-wing doesn't even have it, the B-wing definitely shouldn't stick with just the standard target lock and focus

3 torpedoes is fine, but who is going to take that many? I think 2 is a better number

 

The Modifications, are they the same as the new cards from Wave 2? If so the target lock one needs reworded. For one thing can it be taken by a ship that doesn't have target lock like a TIE?  Also, I think it should cause you to gain a stress token at the end of doing the free target lock. Push the Limit used for reference there.

Auto-cannons. This is OP. 4 standard attack dice is insane compared to what is currently out there. Not even the Falcon with it's twin Quad-lasers has 4. At 3 points why would you ever not take this?  In Shadowjaks formula 1 additional primary weapon is 8 points. Personally I wouldn't include this card at all, but if you must, make it at least 7 points.

I think Advance torpedo needs something differnent than the standard one(more than just an extra crit) people don't seem to like torps now, this should give a different option altogether.

I dig Energy Redirect



#18 Acebaur

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

Apparently there is no edit button the below sentence should have had should instead of shouldn't

No way should a B-Wing have barrel roll. The A-wing doesn't even have it, the B-wing definitely shouldn't stick with just the standard target lock and focus



#19 Picasso

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:38 AM

Because of the rotating cockpit I'm ok with the roll.  I think it should have the same heavy canon upgrade options that the Slave 1 has.



#20 BigDogg

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

BaronZaltor said:

Personally I'd give B-Wings Evasion rather than Barrel Roll.

They have a gyroscopic cockpit which can make them tricky to hit, but it doesnt change their central position.  So Evasion is a good representation of that.

But if  X-wings arent manuverable enough to barrel roll, than I certainly can't imagine B-wings getting a full plane shift ability.

I like that…I think it fits better


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