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Newbie, just want to make sure I understand Setup


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#1 DustyFedora

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:57 PM

So, my daughter and I are playing with just the core set, and using the single color decks suggested in the rules. The first scenario went well and was fun, but then we started on the Anduin scenario. We got utterly destroyed four games in a row. We're pretty new to these kinds of games, but after getting a feel for it, I can tell that some serious adjustments to the four mono colored decks is going to be necessary to win this scenario, unless I am totally misunderstanding the rules.

Would someone be so kind as to tell me if we're doing this right? So first, the scenario tells you to draw two encounter cards. We usually get a couple of monsters. Then, after we flip the quest card, there's an automatic Troll all up in your face, along with two buddies, or more, if that something with that darned "surge" effect comes out. Then, on round one, you get three resource points with which to try and defend yourself. On the first turn of quest resolution, since there are two of us playing, we draw two MORE encounter cards to put in the staging area. So, in our last game, it went like this… Goblin Sniper, Some treachery that said t draw two more enounter cards, (warg, crow with surge so i had to draw a warg rider) then place the troll. The encounter card draws put another warg and some horrible looking Snake thing out there. Seven enemies right off the bat.

Is that about the size of it? Are we doing something wrong somewhere? If not, how do you even begin to deal with that? I don't mind a challenge, but I like to feel that I've got an outside shot at winning. I don't expect to be spoon fed. I'll do some research and reading on other threads for strategies, but first I'd like to ascertain that I'm not messing up the mechanics somehow. Thanks in advance, folks. On a brighter note, we had a great time playing, even though we were losing horribly. Still, be nice to win one. If this is the second scenario, I can't imagine what the others are like.



#2 starhawk77

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

Sounds like you're doing everything correctly. The only thing to note is that the "when revealed" effect on Stage 1B only puts a Hill Troll into play if there isn't already one in the staging area. So, if you find yourself starting the game with two Hill Trolls in play, you've done something wrong.

Other than that, though, it seems like you're just running into a combination of unlucky encounter deck draws and underpowered player decks. The pre-constructed decks can defeat Journey Along the Anduin, but it's going to be pretty darn difficult. Do a forum search for a thread called "Drowning on the Anduin" if you want to read an extended deckbuilding discussion pertaining to this particular scenario. Off the top of my head, threat reduction is especially important in this quest.

In short, it doesn't seem like you're making any mistakes. This game can just be brutal for inexperienced players. With time and experimentation, though, you'll find ways past those trolls. 

Then you get to attempt an even HARDER scenario 



#3 DustyFedora

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

Hey, thanks for the information. We're already having better luck by building new decks, and finding that to be just about as much fun as playing the game itself.

We have a couple more questions, now that we've got into the game more.

1. If I have since these questions have nothing to do with the last question, should I have made a new thread?

2. This seems obvious, but if one of your heroes dies early, although you can continue to use resources from their pool, they stop gaining resources, right? The only reason I ask is that, in addition to losing a hero, having your resource production cut by 33% seems a very severe penalty and I don't see how you could win even with a good deck that way.  I was using a deck with two lore heroes and one tactics, and the tactics guy got killed (that "despair" shadow effect where you don't get to use your defense really sucks!) which immediately rendered the rest of the tactics cards in my deck completely useless since I only had one tactics resource point left and no way to generate any more.

3. Unless you have cards in play that specifically generate more resource points, three is the most you can generate in any given turn, right? One per hero?

4. I am looking at the flowchart of the game "turn" that is on the next-to-last page of the rulebook, for reference. Unless otherwise stated on the card, Events can only be played in the slots where it says "player actions", right?

5. The gentleman above mentioned that this game is brutal towards inexperienced players. That's no joke. We like this game anyway. However, I don't get to spend a massive amount of time with my daughter, and so we may never get that good at it. Do any of those other fantasy flight games have the same "feel" to them with perhaps a slightly less savage difficulty spike after the intro scenario? Mansions of Madness or the Cthulu one or Game of Thrones? I know I can read the synopsis of them myself, but if anyone has cross-game experience and can recommend another game that is a little more newbie friendly and laid back for us to play after we get stomped by this one, I'd be much obliged.

I'd like to thank anyone in advance that takes the time to give us some guidance here. In the unlikely event I ever get really good at this game, I'll pay the karma pool back and do my best to assist other clueless people. Don't hold your breath :).



#4 richsabre

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:55 AM

DustyFedora said:

Hey, thanks for the information. We're already having better luck by building new decks, and finding that to be just about as much fun as playing the game itself.

We have a couple more questions, now that we've got into the game more.

1. If I have since these questions have nothing to do with the last question, should I have made a new thread?

2. This seems obvious, but if one of your heroes dies early, although you can continue to use resources from their pool, they stop gaining resources, right? The only reason I ask is that, in addition to losing a hero, having your resource production cut by 33% seems a very severe penalty and I don't see how you could win even with a good deck that way.  I was using a deck with two lore heroes and one tactics, and the tactics guy got killed (that "despair" shadow effect where you don't get to use your defense really sucks!) which immediately rendered the rest of the tactics cards in my deck completely useless since I only had one tactics resource point left and no way to generate any more.

3. Unless you have cards in play that specifically generate more resource points, three is the most you can generate in any given turn, right? One per hero?

4. I am looking at the flowchart of the game "turn" that is on the next-to-last page of the rulebook, for reference. Unless otherwise stated on the card, Events can only be played in the slots where it says "player actions", right?

5. The gentleman above mentioned that this game is brutal towards inexperienced players. That's no joke. We like this game anyway. However, I don't get to spend a massive amount of time with my daughter, and so we may never get that good at it. Do any of those other fantasy flight games have the same "feel" to them with perhaps a slightly less savage difficulty spike after the intro scenario? Mansions of Madness or the Cthulu one or Game of Thrones? I know I can read the synopsis of them myself, but if anyone has cross-game experience and can recommend another game that is a little more newbie friendly and laid back for us to play after we get stomped by this one, I'd be much obliged.

I'd like to thank anyone in advance that takes the time to give us some guidance here. In the unlikely event I ever get really good at this game, I'll pay the karma pool back and do my best to assist other clueless people. Don't hold your breath :).

hey

1.doesnt really matter- great thing about this forum is that mods dont get all 'up in it'

2.if a hero dies then it does not gain resources. also everything on the hero goes with it, inc. resources so you cannot spend them. i reccomend having 'fortune or fate' to bring them back from the dead

3.yes, though later heros have methods that give them more. in general, unless otherwise stated, 1 each per turn

4.yes, but 'response cards' can be taken in relevant 'red' situtations, such as test of will.

5.only played this so cant help

anything else just ask

rich


My Deviantart profile. Infrared Art http://richsabre.deviantart.com/

My Portfolio http://richardbyers.portfoliobox.me/

 


#5 starhawk77

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:50 AM

I agree with most everything rich posted above, although I would add a few thoughts:

2. As rich mentioned, all cards and tokens associated with a hero are discarded if that hero leaves play. So, losing a hero early in the game can be really difficult to overcome. Avoid this at all costs.

4. Players may take actions during ANY green step. For instance, during the quest phase, you can take actions before committing characters to the quest. Likewise, during the combat phase, you can take actions during each enemy attack if you so choose. 

5. If you want a similar but easier game, check out Sentinels of the Multiverse. It's a cooperative super hero card game that resembles LotR in many ways. The players choose fixed hero decks (so no deckbuilding) and try to take down a villain deck that reveals cards every turn. There are also different environments that alter the field of play. It's a lighter game than LotR, but it's quite a bit of fun if you're into comic book stuff. CoC and GoT are both competitive games, and both are considerably more difficult than LotR. GoT in particular is a brilliant game, but it has a very, very steep learning curve and is not for the faint of heart.



#6 SOGra

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:48 PM

I know I am responding to a thread started a few months ago, but I wanted to share my experience with Journey Down the Anduin, the second scenario in the core game.

My wife and I play this together. She loves co-op games so this suited her very well. 

We "learned" this game through trial and error as most people did with the 30 card Sphere decks and the first scenario (Flies and Spiders). Once we got the hang of it, we were easily beating scenario 1. 

Then we sat down and played the 2nd scenario, Journey Down Andiun, and like the original poster of this thread, we got royally toasted. We both used 30 card singular Sphere decks. Due to life's other obligations (job, family…), we did not come back to it for a few weeks.

This afternoon, we made our second attempt on scenario 2. But we went a different route. We went to 50 card tournament decks, and crossed Spheres in our decks. I had heroes (Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli) representing Leadership and Tactics. She had heroes representing Spirit and Lore. She had Glofindal in her deck so she handled most of the questing, while my heroes and allies concentrated on dispensing with engaged enemies. As you know, you must stage the Hill Troll right from the start. The previous time we played, the Hill Troll was engaged early and just destroyed my heroes. This time, I engaged it, and let it do damage to Gimli…4 points out of his 5 total hit points. Now the 4 hit points also add a +4 to his attack. Legolas and Aragorn attacked and managed 3hit points on it. The next round, we were lucky enough to have only 1 enemy stage, and it was a high threat level so we could keep it staged. Then I was lucky enough to have Thicket of Spears in my hand. I played it, keeping any engaged enemies (the Hill Troll) from making any attacks that round, and I hit him with the combined attacks of Gimli (6), Legolas (3), and Aragorn (3). 12 against 3 hitting for 9, killing the Hill Troll, and Legolas adding to progress tokens to the quest card for his part in the kill. Next turn, my wife healed up Gimli for 2 hit points to get him out of danger. After that, she did the questing with her Spirit/Lore group, and I took on most of the enemies that came into play. We won. Not easily, and the encounter deck was favorable on us this time. We didn't get a single location card until about 7 turns into the scenario, allowing us to get progress tokens on Quest cards in bunches without location diversions. 

So I cannot say if we were unlucky the first time, or if we were lucky the second time. But I suspect switching from a 30 card singular Sphere deck for her and I to 50 card multiple sphere decks helped us get a jump and stay competitive in the scenario. 

We can't wait to try it again. We hope to start the Mirkwood Adventuress very soon. Just need to play the 3rd scenario before we go to Mirkwood. Note, I understand that last Core Game scenario is a tough one, so if we get stuck there for too long, we will bypass the Necromancers Tower and just advance into the First Mirkwood Adventure, starting our Mirkwood adventures and come back to the Tower scenario after we have progressed through Mirkwood and built out decks with more cards from those adventures.

 



#7 GrandSpleen

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:09 PM

One comment -- Thicket of Spears must be paid for by 3 separate heroes.  That means 3 heroes capable of paying for Tactics cards.  You had Legolas and Gimli, but Aragorn is a Leadership hero.  If you put a Song of Battle on him, great-- otherwise, you made an error.  

There's a lot to keep track of in this game.  I made lots of errors like this when I was starting out, and didn't catch them until it was way too late to 'rewind' the game a bit.  I still make the occasional goof even after playing for a year :   Just learned to accept it really.  Gotta be careful, but it's a complicated game and we are not machines!






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