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Ejection Seats


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#1 Crunchysam42

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:00 AM

 Hey all. Traveller724 and i were throwing around ideas the other day and he came up with one that is just wizard. In campaigns we all want our star pilots to stay in the fight. So he wants to add ejection seats in to allow them to keep on blasting in the next battle. This would be great in my opinion, but i would like some feedback from everyone. 



#2 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:41 AM

What kind of mechanic are you thinking about using to determine if the pilot ejects safely, or are you just assuming everyone always escapes harm?



#3 Hrathen

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

What, do I go all the the trouble of killing Luke, but he ejects and then space swims over the the rookie pilot's X-Wing, kicks that pilot out into space and steals the fighter. 

If this is what you are thinking then I have to vote no, as strongly as I can.  If you go to the trouble of killing a particular pilot you deserve to get to have him dead.

 

However if you are doing something like a campaign and you want there to be a possibility that just because Wedge got shot down in round one, that he isn't nessisarally out of the fight for rounds two and forward.  That would be fine.  But I don't think that is what you are talking about.


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#4 Parakitor

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

Hrathen said:

However if you are doing something like a campaign and you want there to be a possibility that just because Wedge got shot down in round one, that he isn't nessisarally out of the fight for rounds two and forward.  That would be fine.  But I don't think that is what you are talking about.

Actually, I think that's exactly what he's talking about. It's a cool idea, but it does kind of unbalance the factions. Hey, if staying alive is the idea, why not have hyperdrive-equipped craft flee the battle if they make it to an edge? Once again, those poor TIE fighters don't have that option, but I don't think TIE pilots pride themselves on a long life expectancy.

I agree that if you gun for a certain character only to have him "survive" after the killing blow it would be disappointing. Are you thinking something along the lines of "roll an evade die. On a [evade] your pilot may be deployed in later engagements in the campaign."?

I'd be interested to play in some campaigns without this mechanic before I tried it out. I think I'd appreciate it more. Or I may feel that it's unnecessary. In fact, having Wedge die in round 1 may even force me to play with Red Squadron Pilots, who I never touch right now. That'd be cool, too.


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#5 Crunchysam42

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:24 PM

 Para has it right. I do not want a simple eject to be a jerk. I agree with a dice roll and you live with the outcome. Now i thought TIE fighters had ejection seats. Read it somewhere. But it would be used for campaigns and only campaigns. Who wants to lose their Vader in game 1? So lets all test it out. See the outcome of games with it and not with it. 



#6 flvolunteer

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:15 AM

Suggestion: Have the ability to recover pilots tied to winning the scenario.  For example, if the Rebs bug out or are wiped out, then it is less likely they will be able to move in a recovery ship (or that the recovery ship will survive moving into the area).  Of course, an ejected pilot would then be vulnerable to capture by the Imperials, so that could open up another aspect of the campaign as an interrogated enemy could reveal classified information!

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#7 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

 I would actually do this in reverse, sort of.  No ejections.  Instead, everyone would start with the lowest level generic pilots.  for each of your pilots to survive the first round, you can take a higher level no-name for the second round.  For each of them to survive that round, you get the lowest level named pilot or maybe just any named pilot available to that ship.  And so on.  Let people be rewarded for good play, like getting kinged in checkers.

Though, that said, if you had to do ejections, I'd wait until the end of the game, and whoever wins the conflict could be given the opportunity to roll two evade dice to get their ejected pilots back.  Both die have to roll evade, and only the winner get's to roll.



#8 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

 The idea being that pilots are gaining experience.



#9 Traveller724

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

OK, so let me explain….no, there is too much, let me sum up.

Ejection and experience rules would be used for campaigns between players.  This is all homebrew, use it, don't use it, or modify it, whichever suites your style of play and campaigns.  My proposal is based on a complete system, of squadron building, playing multi-mission campaigns, and pilots gaining experience…and yes, that there is a chance that they are recovered after an ejection.  In Star Wars, Episode IV, Porkins was told to eject…he politely declined just before his ship exploded, there is canon material to support the idea. 

I personally prefer playing campaigns because players (me included) operate differently when they you will need that ship or pilot in upcoming games…as opposed to playing single games where people are generally a little more bloody minded.

This is basically a modified version of the system used in a game published a long long time ago….Squadron Commander 3600.

SQUADRON BUILDING

Fighter squadrons will have a mix of experience.  You'll have a mix of talented pilots (either experienced or natural pilots) and newbies (ie cannon fodder).  Histoically in fighter combat, a small percentage of pilots (I think about 10%) get a disproportionate amount of kills (like around 80%).

Part of campaign involves building a squadron first.  I think an X-Wing squadron would be about 300 pts (maybe a little more) and have 12 Fighters, if it was at full strength.  TIE squadrons might be about 150, also with 12 fighters.  Per Star Wars canon, Imperial doctrine says that TIE squadrons, should out number X-Wings 3-1 at a minimum, to give them an advantage.  Generally speaking, a balanced fight is about 2 TIEs for every X-Wing.  Anyhow, assuming an even fight, it would be 1 X-Wing squadron against 2 TIE Squadrons.  Obviously you could ad variations for other types of ships.

These points would be used to buy pilots, skills, ordinance, ship mods.  If your squadron was intended to be an attack squadron, you might invest in more proton torps.  The squadron could also have maintenance crews that repair your battledamage.  Bring too many ships home with damage and ships may have to sit out for a fight.

CAMPAIGN BASICS

The campaign would be played in multiple rounds.  There are 3 missions per rounds.  Each player assigns fighters to the missions each round.  You either win or lose each mission,, pilots either die or survive and gain experience.  Anyone who flew on the previous round also becomes fatigued.  Fly a pilot too many missions without a rest, he is penalized in some way (temporary reduction in skill, loss of special ability etc).  Also, real squadrons usually have more pilots than they do fighters for this very reason.

Missions would consist of Space superiority, Escort, Scouting, and Strike missions against starships, bases, or ground targets.

You could of course adjust the number of points for each opposing force and increase or reduce the number of missions flying during each round.

PILOT EXPERIENCE

Pilots gain experience from participating in a mission and from scoring kills.  Again, historically, if fighter pilots survive their first 5 missions, they tended to have a good life expectancy, but they were vulnerable those first 5 missions.  I haven't worked out the details yet here is the rough idea I am working with: the pilot that scores the killing blow gets experience, equal to the point cost of the target.  From thier, there would be a chart explaining how many experiece points are required to move up to the next pilot skill level.  Perhaps when someone becomes an ace, they get the "Medal", meaning they can choose pilot skill card.

FINALLY….EJECTIONS

When a pilot's fighter is shot down, he is out of the battle,, but may return to the squadron .  When a pilot is shot down, he either returns to his squadron in time to participate in the campaign, or he doesn't.  So whether the pilot didn't get out of his exploding ship in time, suffocated in space while waiting for rescue, or was captured, the result is the same, he's gone.  The empire isn't going to give him back if he is captured either.

The way I see it, pilots have 3 damage points.  PILOT Critical hits count against the pilot's damage points (This make the Determination pilot skill card valuable).  A wounded pilot is less likely to survive in space than a health pilot with an undamaged cockpit/escape pod. When a pilot ejects, roll 4 red damage dice.  On HIT or CRITICAL HIT results, apply one point of damage to the pilot.  If the pilot takes 3 damage points, then he is killed/captured or lost.  The number of dice rolled could be modified by the outcome of the battle or its location:  EJECT IN ENEMY TERRITORY: +1 Die:  WINNER OF THE BATTLE: -1 DIE

I made the a 1 step process because the question is this, "Will the pilot live to fight another day, yes or no.  You could easily make seperate rolls for EJECTION, then another to decide your FATE (choices being Lost, Captured, or Rescued, then another to determine how long before the pilot is ready to get back to flying. 

For every damage point sustained, the pilot must sit out an equal number of campaign rounds.  This can represent the time it takes to find the pilot, or the medical recovery time required after rescue.

The number of dice rolled rolled and the number of pilot hit points can be adjusted to suite your taste.  3 Hit points and 4 dice give the pilot a good chance of recovery if he isn't wounded, though he is likely to be out of the fight for a couple rounds.

I have not worked out details for this game yet, and testing will be required.  I did spend about 4 years using this very system in another starfighter combat game, so the principle works well.  Specifics still need some tweeking for this game.  The bottom line is that, for me, it is more fun to see which of my pilots survive the campaign.  The challenge is also trying to win while not being so reckless that you sacrifice your best pilots.  Its also a challenge to rotate your pilots to keep themm from getting too fatigued.  Thus every lost pilot and lost fighter makes it harder and harder to complete your missions.

 

 



#10 qwertyuiop

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

I like Para's evade die concept.  With a twist. A blank result equals death, evade results in the pilot surviving but with injury, banning his use in the next round, while a focus result means the pilot has survived and can fight again in the next round.

You could implement a capture mechanic, too… with possible prisoner exchanges based on pilot point value… further locking down, but not completely removing pilots from the game. Academy and Rookie pilots are of course immune to capture and survival.



#11 cockney

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

 

 

I like this and will try this out, I was thinking about giving one XP for playing, and 5 XP for winning and the pilot getting the XP value of the kills he made. To gain an upgrade would be 5 XP to incress a pilot form a 1 to a 2 and the cost of the upgrade ie marksmanship the value of the card x 10 xp.

 

so it could be and should be a slow progession to being an ace, also you can only go up in incerments of 1 to no jumping from a rookie to a pilot skill 7 in one go.



#12 magadizer

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

 I started to work on some similar rules tonight. I also came up with an idea for fleeing the battlefield that allows strategic retreats (although with potential penalties).


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