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Can artillery weapons be used in base/warehouse tiles?


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#1 Kriegschatten

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

In the Operation Cyclone rules, it says this "Artillery weapons (range A) can never be used inside buildings! They would hit the ceiling before having the chance to reach an enemy!  For this reason, when you play a scenario that takes place inside a base (grey tiles), you cannot use any weapons with range A." (pg. 7)

The FAQ has similar, but slightly different wording.  There it says "Q: Can Artillery weapons (Range A) be fired from inside a structure?
A: No. Artillery weapons fire in a parabolic trajectory. Any artillery weapons fired from inside a structure would hit the ceiling of that structure and explode, making it very dangerous for the artillery unit!" (pg. 8)

The Operation Blue Thunder rules included with the Terrain Tile Set say this: "There are two types of terrain tiles: snow and warehouse.  There is no gameplay difference between a snow tile and a warehouse tile, so players can use any combination of terrain tiles they like." (pg 2)

 

It seems like these rules kind of contradict one another.

 

I suppose it comes down to whether or not being on a base/warehouse tile counts as being in a "structure".  I find it interesting that the very specific wording in Cyclone that artillery weapons can't be used in base/warehouse tiles is missing from the FAQ.

 

Personally, I'd be inclined to stick with the Cyclone rules, because they seem more logical and force some variety in troop selection.

But maybe I'm just biased because the Allies keep dropping Steel Rain rockets on my beloved Axis forces.

 

What do you folks think?  Is this another question for the rules gurus at FFG?



#2 Lska

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

 Wellthat's pretty simple. First of all Cyclone came after blue thunder ERGO - it rules are more important. But on the other hand i would use those rules only for campaigns, where it is said (you fight ina underground base bal bla bla). If you play a random game you just need to set those rules. All in all you are not allowed to use A weapons in buldings and bunkers etc in campaign missions while in random games on not snow tiles speak to your opponent and make the decision together.



#3 golem101

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

Operation Blue Thunder's warehouse tiles were simply a different series of terrain graphics (opposed to the ones depicting the arctic terrain) and had no real mechanical effect other than providing a new theme for a battle.

As the rules for Artillery weapons showed up later on (Operation Cyclone), and rules for add-on structures appeared even at a later stage (Operation Seelowe) there's a bit of disconnect between rules reagarding how they interact with each other, and there's a bit of confusion about the wording for buildings, structures and warehouse tiles.

As A weapons are prohibited both from firing inside a large closed structure (warehouse tiles representing a base, a cavernous building or whatever else) and firing from within a structure (such as those seen in Operation Seelowe and I suppose even the 3D buildings from Operation Cerberus) to an external target, I'd rule that any kind of closed structure negates use of A weapons.

Even though  firing them directly at targets (no parabolic trajectory, or a very low one) sounds like a plausible house rule.



#4 Londoncopper

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:58 AM

Maybe you need to decide if the building is a ruin or intact, there would be no problem firing from a roofless, ruined shell.



#5 Kriegschatten

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

Received my answer today!:

"Operation Cyclone was released prior to the Revised Core Set and the Terrain Tile Set, both of which operate under the revised core rules. If specifically playing a scenario from Operation Cyclone, treat units on warehouse tiles as being inside a structure. In all other scenarios, however, warehouse tiles are not considered to be within a structure and artillery range weapons can be used normally."

 

So, all of those revised Blue Thunder scenarios included with the Terrain Tile Set allow artillery.  And aircraft, now that I think about it.

Advanced Deployment sure could break some of those scenarios…



#6 Lska

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

 Most of the scenarios from BT and Cyclone are already broken by fast-moving armor 3 allied inf.



#7 Gothik

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

That is why BT and Cyclone (as all other campaigns, IMHO) should be played solely with units avaliable at the moment of campaign release (after all, these scenarios were tailored for specified units). It gives the best experience for all gamers -  so no one feels screwed that in scenario type "reach point x by the end of turn 8" allied Grim Reapers with a little help of stimulants from Corps Officers had reached  objective in turn 2 :D






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