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Question about LotW side quests


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#1 TheStranger

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

 I just read the preview for Layer of the Wyrm expansion and it seems that the overlord is one who choose the play the side quest cards.  However, I'm not sure what incentive, from a strategy point of view, he has to play them.  Does it benefit him in any way or does he basically just play them if he feels like playing an extra quest?



#2 Horo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

All here in this forum know as much about Lair of the Wyrm as you do…



#3 Ivan Kerensky

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

I have the exact same questionning about it.

I saw no point in the Overlord providing thoses quests if this give the heroes a chance for better equipment than what they could have in standard campaign.

I also ticked when I saw that the rules for a full campaign using the expansion will be made avaliable later.

For me it is clear that they rushed the expansion out without having enough time to playtest the campaign so they devise a way to include the extension quest into the base game. But it sound really artificial and entirely in the hand of the Overlord, who is a COMPETITOR in the game and thus have absolutely no incentive to provide the Hero players with advantage or potential advantage.

For me this is just a big FAIL.

 

 



#4 Macnme

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

From what I've read about it;

Aren't the side-quests encountered through the Travel cards - with the Hero players deciding wether to follow the rumour from the travel card - or just continue to the main quest?

 

Or did I dream that?!



#5 Morthai

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

Ivan Kerensky said:

I have the exact same questionning about it.

I saw no point in the Overlord providing thoses quests if this give the heroes a chance for better equipment than what they could have in standard campaign.

I also ticked when I saw that the rules for a full campaign using the expansion will be made avaliable later.

For me it is clear that they rushed the expansion out without having enough time to playtest the campaign so they devise a way to include the extension quest into the base game. But it sound really artificial and entirely in the hand of the Overlord, who is a COMPETITOR in the game and thus have absolutely no incentive to provide the Hero players with advantage or potential advantage.

For me this is just a big FAIL.



1. This expansion is beta playtested since 06/12 so around 5 months. Even before the release of the base game this expansion was already in alpha playtest.
2. As far as I know the Quest completely REPLACES 1 of the 3 doable act 1/2 quests and is only ADDITIONALLY available. The Overlord also gets rewards from this quests if he wins them.
3. There are travel cards that force the overlord to play a rumor - as in the preview shown!
4. The original intent was that these quest are only available by rumors, the additional minicampaign provided via later supply is extracontent FOR FREE.
5. This expansion was ment as enhancement to the Shadow Rune campaign not as standalone Campaign. I am quite sure there will be new campaigns in a big box expansion later. And Lair of the Wyrm will be able to support those also!
6. It may be of concern that Lair of the Wyrm was orginally intended to be included in the base game but wasn't due to time and massive box release problems. This has a simple marketing reason.
7. By the look of the content this will be 1 of at least 2 miniexpansion since it features only 2 new classes and it is highly probably that there will be another to complete the cycle. Still this expansion provides hell of a supply!



#6 Macnme

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:25 AM

& is there any official release date for it yet?

 

I've got it pre-ordered, but it'd be nice to know when to expect it.



#7 TheStranger

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

 Thanks for the clarification, Morthai. So I guess it's still true that the overlord has no incentive to either play or not play the rumor cards (assuming the rumor quests are balanced, the heroes have as much chance of getting something good as he does). It seems that an equivalent rule would be for the heroes to decide on playing rumors or for all players to just vote on whether they want to play the rumor or not. 



#8 Ispher

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:55 AM

Morthai said:

2. As far as I know the Quest completely REPLACES 1 of the 3 doable act 1/2 quests
 

 

Apparently not. From the preview page:

[UPDATE: To be clear, side quests are available in addition to standard campaign quests, not in lieu of them. Finishing side quests does not advance the campaign, and any side quest not taken by the time three normal Act I quests are resolved becomes a missed opportunity.]



#9 noodles

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:04 AM

I don't understand the negativity towards the expansion.  It offers a lot of extras to an already great game.  The extra classes, heroes, monsters, condition all can be used seamlessly with the original game.  The quests are in addition to, not replacing, the campaign quests so use them or don't, your choice.  As far as the question, "Why would the overlord, who is a competitor, want to allow these in the game?"  My response to that would be, "because it's fun and at the end of a 20-40hr campaign it doesn't matter who wins."  I guess the bottom line is if you don't like it you don't have to buy it but why trash it on the forum?



#10 Steve-O

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

Ivan Kerensky said:

 

I saw no point in the Overlord providing thoses quests if this give the heroes a chance for better equipment than what they could have in standard campaign.

 

 

For all we know, the Overlord also gets better rewards from the rumour quests if he wins.  The base game has already established a pattern of making artifacts that can be used by either heroes or Overlord, so it seems likely that any new artifacts these quests may introduce for the heroes will also be available to the OL should he win instead.

Ivan Kerensky said:

 

I also ticked when I saw that the rules for a full campaign using the expansion will be made avaliable later.

 

 

Why were you ticked?  Because you'd have to wait longer?  You could always just not buy the expansion until the new campaign is released and then decide if you really want it or not.  You lose nothing for waiting.

Ivan Kerensky said:

 

For me it is clear that they rushed the expansion out without having enough time to playtest the campaign so they devise a way to include the extension quest into the base game.

 

 

I disagree with the idea that these rumour quests are the remnants of a rushed campaign that was never properly completed.  Rumours were a big part of the Advanced Campaign mechanics in Descent 1E, so I'm quite sure that this is FFG's way of deliberately re-introducing the rumour mechanic in 2E.  And it seems like a really cool way to do so, IMHO.

Ivan Kerensky said:

 

But it sound really artificial and entirely in the hand of the Overlord, who is a COMPETITOR in the game and thus have absolutely no incentive to provide the Hero players with advantage or potential advantage.

 

 

As I mentioned above, there's no evidence to suggest that the Overlord is without gain in these rumour quests.  That the heroes might win and grow stronger for it is a risk, but the rewards the OL stands to gain may well be worth it.  We simply don't know enough of the details to be making judgements like "why would the Overlord ever choose to play this?"

Plus, as others have already pointed out, there's at least one card added to the Travel Deck (random draw) which can force the OL to play a rumour quest even if he doesn't want to.  Incentive or no incentive.

Ivan Kerensky said:

 

For me this is just a big FAIL.

 

 

I have my own concerns about the speed with which this expansion was announced, but I for one am not going to judge it until I have a complete picture of what the expansion provides.  You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I think you'll find as more previews come out that things are probably not as dire as you make them out to be.

If you still don't like it when all is said and done, nobody is forcing you to pay for it.  Just move on with your life and find a game you DO like.  Paying to support Descent when it's not giving you what you want would be the real fail.






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