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Attack dice of brotherhood units


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#1 Ser Folly

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:32 AM

I just bought a copy of the Brotherhood without Banners and while I understand that a brotherood w/o banners has no banners to show the rank, I have a problem as my German unit cards just give the attack dice (3) for the cavalry.

What about infantry and archers? How many attack dice do they roll? And do archers still ignore the fist symbols?

 

It's not on my cards so please help me please…


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#2 SFRR

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:16 AM

 I believe all Bw/oB units are considered Blue Rank units, and thus roll 3 attack dice.


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#3 argwinkle

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

They have 3 dice. From looking at the english rules pdf, it seems the original cards have a "3" there, just as the Knights (bit hard to see, because of the overlayed figure). Looks like an error in our German version.



#4 Ser Folly

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:15 AM

Thanks! That still leaves the question whether Brotherhood arches count valiant (armored fist) symbols on their attacks. The other archers (Stark, Lanni) don't.

The German rules say something like "… they hit more often than typical archers.", which would strengthen that point (unless you count typical archers as being archers with a green rank).

Could someone check that please?


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#5 SFRR

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

 It seems pretty clear to me, in the English rules anyway, that the Ranged Class of units never hit on "Valor" [fist] results.  I believe the extra hit probability referenced comes from, as you already surmised, the extra combat die rolled by a Blue Rank Ranged Class unit, but does not come from hitting on a "Valor" die roll result.  Anyway, that's the way I read it.

Unit Classes are indicated on pg 15 (English rulebook) of the Core BoW Rulebook as:

1. Infantry

2. Ranged

3. Cavalry

Unit Ranks (obviously) are:

1. Green - 2 dice

2. Blue - 3 dice

3. Red - 4 dice

Attack TYPE is also indicated, and again ranged attacks do not hit on "Valor" [fist] die roll results, they also do not cause an engagement token to be placed.

My opinion is that one can safely assume the Bw/oB ranged units do not hit on "Valor" [fist] die roll results.

 


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#6 argwinkle

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:06 AM

SFRR said:

It seems pretty clear to me, in the English rules anyway, that the Ranged Class of units never hit on "Valor" [fist] results.

Where? I searched the english rules pdf for "ranged", and did not find anything about not hitting on valor based in the unit class. And the Kennelmaster's ranged attack definitely hits on valor, to name one exception from the Core set.



#7 Ser Folly

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:23 AM

argwinkle said:

SFRR said:

It seems pretty clear to me, in the English rules anyway, that the Ranged Class of units never hit on "Valor" [fist] results.

 

Where? I searched the english rules pdf for "ranged", and did not find anything about not hitting on valor based in the unit class. And the Kennelmaster's ranged attack definitely hits on valor, to name one exception from the Core set.

 

From the English rulebook page 20:

B. Causing Hits with Valor Symbols
Valor results are successes (hits) unless the attacking unit’s Order
Table (see Unit Reference card) has the “no Valor hit” icon (see
“Valor Hit Restriction” on page 11).

Which makes my question an absolutely valid one…

 

By the way argwinkle, just downloaded your app. Nice thing and I was the first to 'like it'. Design is improvable ;-)


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#8 Ser Folly

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:19 AM

Furthermore: what do Brotherhood archers do in melee? Die? They have just range 2-5?


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#9 SFRR

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

argwinkle said:

 

SFRR said:

It seems pretty clear to me, in the English rules anyway, that the Ranged Class of units never hit on "Valor" [fist] results.

 

Where? I searched the english rules pdf for "ranged", and did not find anything about not hitting on valor based in the unit class. And the Kennelmaster's ranged attack definitely hits on valor, to name one exception from the Core set.

 

 

OK, I will let you guys sort this out, and then I am bowing out of this one.  Kennelmaster units are a special type of ranged attack where the dogs, at least in my understanding, are conducting a melee attack after running out from their handlers, and then returning to the melee unit / handlers.  I was merely making an inference from all of the other non-special ranged units, where arrows or bolts are shot, and those do not hit on "Valor" [fist] die roll results.

In any case, I will follow this to see what you guys figure out, but I'm going to back out of this one.

 


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#10 SFRR

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

Ser Folly said:

argwinkle said:

 

SFRR said:

It seems pretty clear to me, in the English rules anyway, that the Ranged Class of units never hit on "Valor" [fist] results.

 

Where? I searched the english rules pdf for "ranged", and did not find anything about not hitting on valor based in the unit class. And the Kennelmaster's ranged attack definitely hits on valor, to name one exception from the Core set.

 

 

 

From the English rulebook page 20:

B. Causing Hits with Valor Symbols
Valor results are successes (hits) unless the attacking unit’s Order
Table (see Unit Reference card) has the “no Valor hit” icon (see
“Valor Hit Restriction” on page 11).

Which makes my question an absolutely valid one…

Yup, so maybe they DO roll 3 dice AND hit on "Valor" symbols, hope you will post what you find out.


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#11 argwinkle

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:53 PM

Ser Folly said:

From the English rulebook page 20:

 

B. Causing Hits with Valor Symbols
Valor results are successes (hits) unless the attacking unit’s Order
Table (see Unit Reference card) has the “no Valor hit” icon (see
“Valor Hit Restriction” on page 11).

Which makes my question an absolutely valid one…

 

There's nothing about Ranged units in that paragraph. We just need to know whether the original English card has a "no Valor hit" icon or not. Come on, people - someone must have the English version.

Ser Folly said:

 By the way argwinkle, just downloaded your app. Nice thing and I was the first to 'like it'. Design is improvable ;-)

 

Thanks! I'd love to do something about the design, but even getting a simple design to look good on different android versions and devices seems beyond my skills. Anyway, my development version has some more features, too (for example counting morale results beyond X as hits), so the interface needs to be overhauled in any case.



#12 SFRR

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:38 AM

 Brotherhood Without Banners

Unit Card for: Lightning Lord's Longbowmen

There is NO icon present near the "Ranged" unit type symbol indicating "No Valor Hits" on the English language version of this unit card in my possession.

Conclusion: it would appear that this particular Ranged Type unit does indeed Hit on "Valor" [fist] die roll results.


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#13 Ser Folly

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:49 AM

Thanks a lot. Another mysterie solved. That makes them quite powerful especially in the second line of an attack.

Still can they attack in melee at all?

I'll have to mail Mr. Rob Kouba about that, I guess.


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#14 argwinkle

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

Ser Folly said:

Still can they attack in melee at all?

I'll have to mail Mr. Rob Kouba about that, I guess.

They can't. That's well known - after all, the Tully Longbowmen have the same "feature". Note that normal archers (range 1-4) can't make melee attacks either - they can attack adjacent units, and can do parting blows and counterattack if stalwart, but these attacks are still considered ranged attacks (i.e. no engagement, no directional retreats).

With range 2-5, the Longbowmen can not target adjacent units, hence no parting blows or counterattacks. That's their weakness.






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