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#1 Farro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:49 AM

Hello everyone. I tried searching the forums quickly but found no answer. I have a few questions about the rules, and I found no answer in the rulebook or the FAQ.

How do you determine who is the first player to be the Speaker? Roll the dice?

If no one takes the Initiative Strategy Card, does the Speaker token change ownership? (We've handled this in the Eclipse way, the first player to pass his round claims the token)

This is not really a question, but more like a _wtf_ moment: A system containing a planet, containing my Ground Forces got attacked by enemy Dreadnought, and my carrier had to flee the system. Then the attacking player used his Diplomacy Strategy on me. I could no longer go and reclaim the hex, barring my progress to the Mecatol Rex. What kind of Diplomacy is this, threatening my planets with a Dreadnought? By the rules this is completely legal I guess, but it's still pretty confusing, fluff-wise. You could bring a Cruiser to every enemy Space Dock and activate Diplomacy, preventing the enemy from building anything. He could not claim them back either, because he can't activate the systems containing my units. The same would apply to me as well but so what, he's stuck? This is truly disturbing.



#2 Fnoffen

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

Farro said:

 

Hello everyone. I tried searching the forums quickly but found no answer. I have a few questions about the rules, and I found no answer in the rulebook or the FAQ.

How do you determine who is the first player to be the Speaker? Roll the dice?

 

 

The base game rulebook has the following to say on page 8, galaxy setup sidebar, left column, second section: "…randomly determine one player to be “first player.“ Give the “Speaker“ Token to the first player." The best way to randomly determine would probably be, as you suggest, to roll the dice. I must say, however, that this piece of info might be better suited to place in the Game Setup part beginning on page 6 as, say, part of Step 1.

Farro said:

 

If no one takes the Initiative Strategy Card, does the Speaker token change ownership? (We've handled this in the Eclipse way, the first player to pass his round claims the token)

 

The Speaker token only change ownership when someone takes the Initative SC. If noone chooses Initiative, you would allow the same player (the Speaker) to claim the Imperial SC twice or more in a row, gaining him/her a BIG boost ahead in terms of VPs. At least when playing with vanilla SCs.

 

 

This is not really a question, but more like a _wtf_ moment: A system containing a planet, containing my Ground Forces got attacked by enemy Dreadnought, and my carrier had to flee the system. Then the attacking player used his Diplomacy Strategy on me. I could no longer go and reclaim the hex, barring my progress to the Mecatol Rex. What kind of Diplomacy is this, threatening my planets with a Dreadnought? By the rules this is completely legal I guess, but it's still pretty confusing, fluff-wise. You could bring a Cruiser to every enemy Space Dock and activate Diplomacy, preventing the enemy from building anything. He could not claim them back either, because he can't activate the systems containing my units. The same would apply to me as well but so what, he's stuck? This is truly disturbing.

 

 

A mean but perfectly legal strategy. To block ALL of a player's Space Docks, however the targeted player would almost have to sit idle and actively allow it to happen. Unless he/she has placed all Space Docks in the same system or have locked up all his/her fleets by moving them prior to this happening. If it does happen anyway, the targeted player could always try and get help from one of the other players in removing the blockaders.


Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum


#3 Steve-O

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

Farro said:

What kind of Diplomacy is this, threatening my planets with a Dreadnought? By the rules this is completely legal I guess, but it's still pretty confusing, fluff-wise.

Diplomacy is the art of speaking softly while you reach for a big stick.

Farro said:

You could bring a Cruiser to every enemy Space Dock and activate Diplomacy, preventing the enemy from building anything. He could not claim them back either, because he can't activate the systems containing my units. The same would apply to me as well but so what, he's stuck? This is truly disturbing.

I'm not entirely sure by the way you've worded things, but just to make sure you're playing correctly: Each player gets ONE action in initiative order before the next player gets to act, and the first player only gets a second action after everyone has taken their first.  This continues around until all players choose to or are forced to "pass."  So your opponent cannot move into the system and then immediate use Diplomacy (both the Tactical Action required to attack and the Strategic Action required to use Diplomacy are "actions" of which you only get one per player turn.)  Your opponent could do both of these things in sequence, but you and every other player would get at least one action in between the two events.

The carrier idea you mention would require a Tactical Action for each system you need to invade and then another action for Diplomacy after that.  After a while, the very fact that your opponent is picking Diplomacy during the Strategy Phase ought to be enough of a red flag for you to prepare a response.



#4 Farro

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:37 AM

Steve-O, we do play by the rules. He attacked my System, I had to flee and spend my action to bring reinforcements from far away, he used the Diplomacy ability, and that's how I ended up in a locked system with my Ground Forces. Not a very smart move on my part, but that's what happened.

Well, I got my answers. Thank you both.

Now to go and send some wishes to people about my upcoming birthday presents: Shattered Empire and Shards of the Throne. Judging from what I've managed to lurk using google, they seem like must-have expansions. Especially the Flagships and racial techs.



#5 Fnoffen

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

Not to mention new Strategy Cards. Many people say that the base game SCs are broken insofar as the Initiative [1] and Imperial [8] makes quite a predictable circuit around the table since everyone wants the two points that Imperial gives (unless they play to not win) and you need to choose first to get it (unless all players ahead of you also play to not win).

[edit]: Oh. And happy birthday in advance. :)


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#6 Archangelion

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Yes, using diplomacy in such a manner is legal. However, for a player to end up in that situation (having all there space docks blocked) they would either have run out of command counters, or are being steam rolled over to such a degree that they are either a clueless player, or are simply massively under populated ship wise on the board (spread to thin).

In the case of out of command counters, the use of the diplomacy would simply be wasted. Also, as you have retreated your ship from the system, you won't be able to move that particular ship back, as it will now be in a system that has previously been activated. Also, if your opponent has a ship in the system with your space dock, you won't be able to build anything anyways as that dock is under blockade.

If it looks like your opponent will be staying in the system with your space dock, scuttle it in the status phase and build it at another planet away from the incursion if possible, if not, start stretching because you're probably going to be leaving the table soon.



#7 Shadow

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Blocking a spacedock to get a player to waste resources is a common dirty trick in this game.

 

Players must use secondary of Warfare to put out blocking destroyers.   This is not a waste of a strategy counter.

Even trusted neighbors will be tempted to block your Spacedocks if it will cost you all your resources.

 

Also, always leave 1 destroyer at your spacedock to prevent another player using the "In the Silence of Space" action card and blocking your space dock.

In the Silence of Space action card allows your opponent to fly through your blocking fleet if the tile they are going to is empty of ships.

 

Many players think they do not need blocking destroyers because they have trusted allies next to them.

Having a trusted ally means you can lower your defenses at that border.  It does not mean you should have no defenses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#8 Fnoffen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

I usually leave 2 or 3 fighters at each SD along with a couple of GF's and a PDS on the surface. Sometimes a destroyer or cruiser might be allowed to join in. The GFs are mainly there to protect the SD and PDS from Local Unrest, another nasty trick to get rid of SDs.

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#9 Shadow

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:10 AM

You need to do this to stop senseless attacks.

1. Put out Blocking destroyers with Warfare secondary

2. Put a Space Mine at the Double Space docks.  Have 2 Dreads and 6 fighters at the Double Space Docks there also.

3.  Back this up with the pds "Grid of Death" network.  All 6 pds with Deep Space Cannons with Graviton lasers

 

This stops alot of meaningless attacks but it is very, very expensive to do.

 

But I found it is worth it if you have enough resources.  Many players will do cheap, meaningless attacks if you are vulnerable and it may take you 2 or 3 turns to get rid of the raiding fleet.  

In a 6 to 9 turn game, 3 turn distraction can be fatal to your game plan.

 

If other players are focused on dismantling your pds network with action cards, you should be expecting a major attack coming your way.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#10 Archangelion

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

Yeah, if you picked up the Magen Defence Grid also, your PDS will be hitting the same as most players Dreadnoughts do without the Hylar Vs.

Now, if you put 6 PDS in one system, and happen to be playing Sardak N'orr, with the above mentioned techs… I don't think anyone in their right mind will be coming to your system with any fleet. Unless they want to loose 6 ships right off the bat. If you have dreads and cruisers in the system also, I would think it would be a suicide run. If someone did that, and you had this set up… you might want to remind them that there are better ways to get rid of their ships, and that they can simply scuttle them in the status phase if they want. If your playing with all the expansions, also remind them that the Trans Fabrication tech would net them a few extra trade goods… not to mention angering their neighbour that has a much easier time killing stuff with his units, and that attacking him, however fruitless, will probably result in him/her getting his/her fleet obliterated in the coming turns!



#11 Shadow

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

Pds's can make any attacker regret attacking your double space docks.

But the best place for a pds "turkey shoot" is Mecatol Rex.

Players should put a small double planet system next to Mecatol Rex and then later put 2 pds with Deep Space cannons on each planet.

Any big fleet going Mecatol Rex is going to suffer lots of pds fire.   And if all the players activate Mecatol Rex, the big fleet there will suffer another round of blistering pds fire.   Lots of fun!

And with you are really mean….Signal jam the big fleet at Mecatol Rex and fire those pds again for next round.

Watch that big fleet turn to space dust!

 

But most players put an empty system next to Mecatol Rex, so a big fleet going there does not usually have to worry about pds's.

 






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