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Is it time for a blanket 3x per phase limit?


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#1 Rehlow

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

I was never subject to any out of control Hellholt Engineers even though I was at two tables with two Martell players each, but is it time for FFG to add a "limit 3 times per phase" to all cards as a generic rule? Cards that need further restriction can still be 3 times per round. Are there any card effects that are appropriate to trigger more than 3 times per phase? To me it feels like if you can pull something off 4 or more times within a single phase you found something the card designers never considered.

Later,
~Rehlow



#2 mdc273

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

This is probably more of a General Discussion question. This forum tends to be more about rules clarifications.



#3 Zap Rowsdower

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:23 AM

I can't think of any triggered effects that need to be more than "3x per phase," so I would say yes. I think it would be better for the game and make designing cards easier.



#4 NuFenix

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:43 AM

What about Vengeful?

There may be times, especially in melee, when it could happen more then three times, and as such, should that be weakened?



#5 Zap Rowsdower

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:02 AM

I was thinking the limit would only apply to triggered effects. Passive and keyword effects wouldn't be limited.



#6 NuFenix

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:51 AM

Well, the OP suggested all cards, so it would include passives and keywords. That is why I thought Vengeful is worth bringing up.

With the concern over cards like Hellholt Engineer, he has been out long over a year, so the fact that he is good (and mainly in melee) is only just being highlighted, does that mean such a rule should be introduced?



#7 ktom

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

Hellholt Engineer is a 2-STR Ally for a reason, you know. That is enough to make him virtually unplayable in most decks. Not sure why we need a blanket limit on all card effects, which would ultimately encourage lazy deckbuilding and design, in order to make him largely unplayable in the rest.



#8 Rehlow

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:27 PM

 Hellholt Engineer is rated 4.24 on agotcards.org today. I can't tell if a bunch of people rated him a 5 after Worlds, but the newest comments are over 3 months old. Feels like a high rating for a virtually unplayable card. 

"Only" being able to use him 3 times in Marshalling to reuse your reducers and then 3 times in Challenges to reuse Scourge still sounds pretty good to me. I know I'll play 3 in any new Martell decks I make.

As far as lazy deckbuilding and design, I'd rather be lazy then have to remember errata. I double check Shadows Bob and Support of Saltcliff when I see them.

Later,

Rehlow



#9 Khudzlin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

I don't think such a limit needs to be made part of the game rules. For design, usage limits should take the cost and potential triggers into account along with the power level of the effect. If an effect has no cost and potentially many triggers, then it should probably have a usage limit. If it has a cost (kneeling or discarding cards, for instance) or can be triggered only a few times per round (a character ability which can be triggered only after winning a challenge in which the character participated, for instance), then it probably doesn't.



#10 ktom

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

Rehlow said:

 Hellholt Engineer is rated 4.24 on agotcards.org today. I can't tell if a bunch of people rated him a 5 after Worlds, but the newest comments are over 3 months old. Feels like a high rating for a virtually unplayable card.
You really can't go off of a rating on agotcards (or anything else) for playability. Most of the ratings are made after the card is spoiled, but before it is released and anyone has actually played with it. And the environments change. Fox's Teeth is rated as 4.27. The Wildling Horde is rated at 4.38. So they must be even more "playable" than Hellholt Engineer, right? But they don't make the general cut too often, either.Ratings tend to reflect the "wow" factor of reading the card, not the card's general utility or playability.

That said, every card is playable in some build. I'm not saying Hellholt Engineer is bad card. In the right deck, he is a "money card." All I'm saying is that because he is a 2-STR Ally, he does not make the cut in most decks that are not specifically built around using or abusing him. Martell players, in general, choose other 2-STR characters (Ally or not) in decks that do not center around certain location effects.

Ultimately, the "should there be a blanket 3x per phase limit" is not a question about whether or not certain character abilities should be allowed; it is whether or not certain deck types should be allowed.






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