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Neat B-Wing model changes orientation.


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#1 Panic

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

yeah,
While browsing ebay I found this image.
But before you get your hopes up, It's in the wrong scale.. 1/144 I think. 

But I liked how it changes orientation and I hope FFG copies the idea.



Panic…



#2 Surtur

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:56 PM

That would be neat, but I have a feeling we're gonna get the typical B-Wing on it's side. After all, it's not like you can lock or unlock the s-foils on the x-wing model.



#3 Norsehound

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

It would be nice if we could finally see some B-Wings in a totally vertical pose (like they were in TIE Fighter/X-Wing), but it might be tricky for pedestal placement. On the other hand, the bottom-hanging gun is kind of large enough to hide a peg base inside of it…



#4 agashmirv

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:02 AM

 I"m thinking alt. poses is a way they'll use to expand the line since it looks like it will be kind of limited, unless they can go beyond canon and make new stuff up.



#5 Major Mishap

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

I doubt if it will be positionable but lets hope it sits vertically for balance purposes especially as one wing sticks out so far and getting in the way.  Why call it a B-Wing, can't see a B shape.

 



#6 sock

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

dont think it will happen, i dont think gimics are the first idea sadly. but conversions arnt difficult. to make some of my xwing different i removed the wings, closed them and stuck them back on, simples.

 



#7 cockney

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

Major Mishap said:

I doubt if it will be positionable but lets hope it sits vertically for balance purposes especially as one wing sticks out so far and getting in the way.  Why call it a B-Wing, can't see a B shape.

 

 

not so much a B wing but a b wing



#8 ThadiusCole

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:23 AM

I would have thought they could position the model so the stem of the base fits into the underside of the B-Wings engine so it can stand vertically.  Having them horizontal would be a pain storage wise and they attack from a vertical position anyway so hopefully that is what they will do.



#9 Surtur

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:11 AM

I'd also like to point out how damn inconsistent everyone is about the B-Wing's orientation when the s-foils unlock. Sometimes the cockpit rotates, sometimes it doesn't.



#10 Vonpenguin

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

I thing that's because the cockpit is meant to remain on the same orientation, allowing the ship to manuver without putting extra gs on the pilot.



#11 Surtur

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

Vonpenguin said:

I thing that's because the cockpit is meant to remain on the same orientation, allowing the ship to manuver without putting extra gs on the pilot.

How does that make sense in 0 gravity where you have no orientation and your guns are drastically changing firing angles while your ship is constantly moving about you? Damn it b wings, can you see what you made me do? You made me try to bring logic to Star Wars!



#12 Vonpenguin

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:10 AM

Star wars and physics have never been friends, But still, momentum would cause G force and such. Not to the degree as in a atmosphere but some.

 

Either way it looks neat and this setting has always run on rule of cool.



#13 FrutigerSans

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:14 AM

Vonpenguin said:

Star wars and physics have never been friends, But still, momentum would cause G force and such. Not to the degree as in a atmosphere but some.

 

Either way it looks neat and this setting has always run on rule of cool.

 

As I recall from EU, space combat maneuvers don't put Gs on the pilot. Makes sense because you would need gravity acting on a moving object to create "G"s and there's non of that in space.

However without Gs pilots don't get a feel of flying. Something like a tactile feedback to how the aircraft is moving. As someone who has flying experience I can tell you that's something u do learn to appreciate. 

So Star Wars fighters have build-In gadgets called inertial compensators which simulate gravity's effect on the pilot, giving him feedback. Of course more Gs strain the pilot so it's a balance of comfort vs feedback.

I read in one of the xwing books that Wedge sets his to about 90% and is a firm believer in "feeling" the fighter. This comes from his experience of how Porkins died on the Batlle over the first Death star, where the large pilot had a low inertia setting and did not realise his X-wing wasn't climbing as much as he thought it was, and slammed into the death star. 



#14 FrutigerSans

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

FrutigerSans said:

Vonpenguin said:

 

Star wars and physics have never been friends, But still, momentum would cause G force and such. Not to the degree as in a atmosphere but some.

 

Either way it looks neat and this setting has always run on rule of cool.

 

 

 

As I recall from EU, space combat maneuvers don't put Gs on the pilot. Makes sense because you would need gravity acting on a moving object to create "G"s and there's non of that in space.

However without Gs pilots don't get a feel of flying. Something like a tactile feedback to how the aircraft is moving. As someone who has flying experience I can tell you that's something u do learn to appreciate. 

So Star Wars fighters have build-In gadgets called inertial compensators which simulate gravity's effect on the pilot, giving him feedback. Of course more Gs strain the pilot so it's a balance of comfort vs feedback.

I read in one of the xwing books that Wedge sets his to about 90% and is a firm believer in "feeling" the fighter. This comes from his experience of how Porkins died on the Batlle over the first Death star, where the large pilot had a low inertia setting and did not realise his X-wing wasn't climbing as much as he thought it was, and slammed into the death star. 

 

Ok it appears I remembered wrongly and the inertial compensator is actually the exact opposite of what I mentioned.. Oops. 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inertial_compensator



#15 MarkNorfolk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

 

I seem to remember it was B for 'blade' as with it's S-foils open it resembles a dagger.

Acceleration would have an effect on pilots in space. Objects under acceleration behave as if under gravity (as I remember from my Physics of Star Trek).

 

All the background for the b-wing I've read says it kicks out some top grade firepower so I'm hoping that the rules reflect that being in front of a b-wing is the worst place to be!

 

Cheers

Mark



#16 Surtur

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

MarkNorfolk said:

 

I seem to remember it was B for 'blade' as with it's S-foils open it resembles a dagger.

Acceleration would have an effect on pilots in space. Objects under acceleration behave as if under gravity (as I remember from my Physics of Star Trek).

 

All the background for the b-wing I've read says it kicks out some top grade firepower so I'm hoping that the rules reflect that being in front of a b-wing is the worst place to be!

 

Cheers

Mark

Well objects in space are subject to momentum still, it's just hard to tell you're actually moving as there is no other force such as gravity or friction to give you a relative point. Acceleration is from a force just as gravity causes force to be applied to an object. So when you turn or change speeds you would feel some G's from that, but going in a straight line at constant speed would feel like nothing.



#17 Dergidan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

 Assuming you're interested in the details, gravity is an acceleration. The force on an object is the product of the object's mass and the accleration due to gravity. (Newton's second law states F = ma, or in the case of gravity, F = mg, with g being the gravitational acceleration).

When an object (like a car or a ship) changes direction, the passengers want to go in a straight line (Newton's fist law). In order to remain in the cockpit rather than go right through the seat as if it wasn't there, the ship exerts a centripital force on the passenger, changing the passenger's direction. This change in direction is an acceleration.

When the rate of change in direction (the acceleration) is 32 feet per second per second, that's one "G". (the same acceleration due to the force of earth's gravity at sea level.)

That's what they are talking about when they say "the pilot made a 1.5 G turn" or similar, and works in zero gravity the same way it does in atmosphere. It's the same type of thing that keeps water in a pail when it's upside down if you swing it over your head fast enough.

Of course, ships in space have no use for wings… but as a previous poster said, star wars and physics aren't exactly friends.


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#18 dbmeboy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:38 AM

Some quibbles with your physics there.  First, gravity is a force which is proportional to the masses of the two objects and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them (given by the equation F = G*M1*M2/r^2).  On the surface of Earth, the distance is close enough to constant and the Earth's mass is constant so that you can consider all but the mass of the other object as constants which gives you the simplification F = mg.  While it is true that the force on an object is (usually) equal to its mass multiplied by its acceleration, it is generally more accurate to consider forces as causing acceleration rather than acceleration as causing forces.  Easier to see with the full version of Newton's 2nd law which states that the time rate of change of an objects momentum is equal to the net external force (F = dp/dt), which simplifies in many cases to F = ma.

But your description of "G-forces" and why they would still work as normal in space is right on.  I think somewhere in Star Wars canon ships have a device to cancel out G-forces so that they can do cool maneuvers without having to think about physics.  It seems to me that the B-Wing's only real benefit from the rotating cockpit would be in pilot orientation (it would allow the ship to keep 1 direction as "up" and make recovering from spinning easier and such things).  It also allows the ship to maintain right-left symmetry (like all of the other ships the pilot might be used to flying) and still be able to land (which is what I suspect made them do that in the movie in the first place).



#19 Dergidan

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:31 AM

 Thanks for that! I'm stuck in Conservation of Momentum this week, and could't recall the exact full Equation F = MmG/r^2. I'm pleased that you took the time to correct my description.

Hooray for Physics nerds!

By the way, just seeing F = dp/dt on a game forum makes this physics nerd smile.


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#20 eldiablito

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:28 AM

Another way to think about it is the units of measurement:  32 ft/sec/sec or 9.8 m/sec/sec

This the foot (or meters) per second per second is an acceleration expression.  So every time you accelerate or decelerate, you feel some sort of simulated "G-force".  That's because you are changing the speed or direction of the vehicle while your body "wants" to keep going the previous direction (see Newtonian physics).  That's why certain roller coasters create wacky experiences with gravity and why sharp turns in a car means the car goes one direction and you seem to slide or are pushed against the car door.

 

Now onto X-wing, or any space or air flight…  Any time you accelerate or decelerate, you will feel something akin to gravity:  That's just the change in speed over time…

 

Meh, the previous posts said it better…






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