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Perks of the Warrant - Space Marines


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#1 venkelos

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

Bearing a Warrant of Trade is a great priviledge, and it might gain them armies, the aide of the Navy, or even the right to be a legitimate pirate. So, I have read some places that a small few Rogue Traders have made beneficial "alliances" with various Space Marine Chapters. I believe some even have a small designation on the Warrant that testifies as much. What might one have to do to gain such a boon from such rare, powerful individuals (from the RT's perspective) as this? I can see getting the Peer and Good Rep (specific Chapter) Talents, or maybe even Oath Bonded to the Angels of Death Talent, if they are incredibly lucky, and it carries over to RT, but I'm not really sure what "regular people", even ones as high and mighty as Rogue Traders, are likely to have done to earn the comaraderie, of a sort, of such men.

Once one gets past that, what benefits might they bring? Space Marines are great, but I don't expect to carry a unit of them on my ship, just in case, and they'd kind of make my other buddies useless. Their gear is mighty, but most is SM only, meaning they don't get the RT any closer to the good stuff, and that's never the problem for Rogue Traders, anyway.

All of this is mostly because, in my fiction, and possibly for players who might inherit aspects of it they don't change (the Warrant has lived a lot longer than them), there is a small bit of stuff at the bottom that says that the Raven Guard will come to the Dynasty's aide, if possible. However, I'm not sure what the players, or some NPC 1,000 years prior, might've done to earn the Raven Guard's trust, or what the Space Marines would do to honor it. As Chapters go, the RG aren't the most powerful, numerous, or anything, really. Ideas would aide in my story. Thanks much.



#2 Alox

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:15 AM

A squad of space marines, posted permanently on a rogue trader ship? I don't see it happen.

I can see space marines travelling on a rogue trader ship for a specific mission.

To earn the favour of space marines you would have to be engaged in some theatre of war where the space marines are operative too, and your actions should be of strategic importance. Further more your character should be of such honour that the marines will come to respect you - preferably you should match the honour code of that chapter. Then you may get a promise that they will come help you, if it is not too far away and the request is one they think is honourable enough (and you need to be able to contact them, which can be hard many years later if the information is lost). Once they given this promise I don't see an expiry date though.

I.E. The relationship is pretty much on the space marines' terms.

 



#3 Adeptus-B

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:36 AM

Alox said:

A squad of space marines, posted permanently on a rogue trader ship? I don't see it happen.

Just to show my old-school cred: that was the original concept of WH40K (the legendary First Edition, a.k.a. WH40K:Rogue Trader)- a RT 'conquistador' flying around with a hold full of Space Marines, lookin' for a fight…

But, yeah, that concept has gone the way of the Rainbow Warriors Chapter…



#4 Siythe

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:25 AM

They've kept the idea alive for at least one Chapter in the Imperial Armour books. The Marines Errant and the rogue trader house Ecale have a pact which means the RT always has a force of space marines at his disposal, the size isn't gone into but has to be at least a squad from the sounds of the fluff. The Marines meanwhile continue to wear the House colours on there shoulder pads when they go back to the chapter and are singled out as specialists in boarding actions and void combat. Quite what the Trader House did in the first place to earn the pact isn't gone into.

 

Another model for how it might work is the Space Wolves and the Navigator House they use. The Space Puppies get exclusive use of the best Navigators available and in return some of the Marines are tasked as Bodyguards and Black Ops troops for them. Tough to think of something a Trader could provide that is as crucial as Navigators to a Chapter but the idea is there to play with.



#5 HappyDaze

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

Perhaps a Chapter (newly founded?) in dire need of a new homeworld and help settling it turned to a RT dynasty for assistance (there's a lot of support that doesn't fit into a battle barge and handful of strike cruisers). It may have been preferred over owing any of the other Imperial organizations a favor.


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#6 susanbrindle

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:13 PM

Things to earn the respect of Space Marines?

 

  • Distinguish self in large-scale battle. IE: Sign up for a years-long campaign involving the Navy *and* Marines, fight really well
  • Directly aid Space Marines in battle IE: Help defend their homeworld from tyranids
  • Directly aid Space Marines out of battle IE: Rogue Trader picks up a distress beacon, finds a squadron of Space Marines stuck on a Feudal World, gives them a lift home.
  • Curry Favor with a Gift: IE: Find some relic of their chapter, return it to them free of charge, thus ensuring that they'll repay you. Or, as suggested above, a planet, since Rogue Traders are one of the few forces that's really equipped to go out and secure and colonize a new world and then give the thing away.
  • Curry Favor with Many Gifts: Maybe the Rogue Trader is the one who secured their trade agreement with a previously undiscovered Forge World, meaning that they get all their heavy bolters and dreadnought parts through this Trader.
  • Personal Relationship: Maybe once the Rogue Trader got stranded on a Death World with the Chapter Master, and they had to work together to survive (Presumably the space marine's legs and arms were broken or something, which is why he needed help) until help came.

 

Things to do with them?

 

  • Keep a few on board for Hit and Run missions
  • Keep a few on board for investigating Space Hulks
  • Keep one on board to train your men if you don't have an Archmilitant
  • Call in the Chapter to help crack particularly nasty planetary sieges
  • Invite them to fancy dinner parties to impress guests


#7 Emperor Castaigne

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

The Marines Errant have sworn ancient oaths that link them closely to the Rogue Trader House of Ecale, and it is known that Vibius has taken advantage of these links during his secondment to the Deathwatch. From time to time, voidships bearing the heraldry of Rogue Trader Ecale have docked at Watch Stations throughout the Acheros Salient. These voidships bear scrupulously correct Inquisitional codes, and it is said that many times Vibius went aboard to confer with the vessels’ mysterious passengers. There are few that know any further details about the link between the Watch Captain and the Rogue Trader, but many Deathwatch operations put into motion by Vibius after one of these meetings have been uncommonly successful.

Special Ability: Connected due to the long standing pact between the Marines Errant and Rogue trader house Ecale, Captain Vibius has access to a much wider range of resources than the average Watch Captain in the Jericho Reach. Any Kill-team operating under Watch Captain Vibius gains access to an additional 5 Requisition per Primary Objective on their mission.

The ancient pact between the Marines Errant and the Rogue Trader house of Ecale is a perfect tool for a GM seeking to provide further adventure hooks, particularly for any stories that link operations between the Deathwatch and the Rogue Traders of the Koronus Expanse. At the GM’s discretion, this assistance can take the form of additional Requisition points to represent the unusual items that the Rogue Traders come across, one free Imperial Navy Asset (representing the Rogue Trader’s fleet, see page 214 in Rites of Battle), or a +10 bonus to all Common Lore (Jericho Reach or Koronus Expanse) Tests attempted by the Kill-team. Naturally, Rogue Traders rarely give anything away for nothing in return, so there may be a favour that the Kill-team is expected to perform on the behalf of the Ecale dynasty as well.

From Deathwatch: The Jericho Reach, some perks of working under Watch Captain Kail Vibius of the Marines Errant and examples of services that a Rogue Trader can provide for the Astartes, the primary ones being transportation, information, annihilation (one example of Imperial Navy Assets being a targeted Lance Strike) and logistics(-ation).

As for how much it would take before you got a proper working relationship going, much would depend on the circumstances, it could be a couple of hundreds year of working together as allies, or the RT Dynasty discovering what would eventually become a Chapter Home World, or providing desperately needed resources at the right time for the Chapter to survive some kind of disaster ("Did someone order 20,000 bolt shells?"), or the RT recovering a sacred relic/some geneseed/a strike cruiser/a surviving squad of marines/etc. etc.

In fact, because of the whole "decaying empire of a million worlds" theme 40k has, it wouldn't be out of place if the RT didn't even know what kind of favour his ancestor provided ("Jenkins!" "Yes, sir!" "Why are the Astartes, the Emperor's Avenging Angels, His Greatest and Most Holy Warriors, standing on my bridge?" "They said something about repaying a debt owed to the dynasty. We have tried to investigate the matter, but it seems the data was stored in cogitators destroyed due to the shipboard fire during the Battle of Nessya VI, 108 years ago." "Did you try asking the Astartes?" "Yes, my lord. They only say that the Dynasty provided "The burning light of the Emperor to guide the way in our darkest hour.", whatever that means.")



#8 lurkeroutthere

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

Things a Rogue Trader could do that wouldn't be easy or quick that might earn you the friendship and aid of a Space Marines chapter.

 

1. Aid the space marines in a campaign. While Space Marine fleets are certainly nothing to sneeze at they could always use more help in space.

2. Some of the above, if a space marine force, especially their naval forces have been depleted for some reason providing space lift and support while they got back on their feet would help.

3. Recover a large cache of space marine gear from a battle site, especially rare and near irreplacable items like terminator armor or disabled dreadnaughts, and returning it to the proper chapter or any chapter might be sufficient. Especially if for example you had to do so while combating the enemies that may have claimed the space marines lives.

4. Space Marines often have a somewhat rocky relationship with other imperial factions. If the space marines have need of something that they cannot or will not just take from force of arms from another faction a skilled and smooth tongue rogue trader might score points by interceding on their behalf.



#9 venkelos

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:55 AM

I think ONE of my problems might be that I chose, for some reason, the Raven Guard, a Chapter who has spent much of the past on the brink, and also, this game often assumes that the setting is the Koronus Expanse, an area frequented by few Space Marines. If the Silver Ravens/House Korvallus Dynasty were set up to be running in the Reach, one might expect to see Space Marines, but in the Expanse, I'm not as sure.

As to the reference to OLD 40k, it could be an intriguing little shift, replacing aspects of the DW Watch and Fortress with a Rogue Trader, and his/her ship, carrying a force of Space Marines. While it doesn't fit so well with the canon, it wouldn't likely be too hard a play to make.

I kind of picked the Raven Guard because, and it wasn't just the silly name similarity with the Dynasty, they don't get a lot of attention. They are a smaller, more independent Chapter, and focus on hit-and-run, guerrilla tactics, if I remember correctly. While I wouldn't plan on keeping a unit on the ship fulltime, I could see them using the unassuming RT vessel to get close to a target, deploy, and coordinate with the RT's other military forces, allowing them to hit critical locations, without getting obliterated, but while also eliminating the biggest nuisances, thus sparing the RT's soldiery. Like I said, just not sure how to connect the two, eventwise, though I am thinking that their pact, of sorts, would have been a long time ago, since the current holder is in Koronus, and I believe that the Raven Guard don't hang there. May have to put some thought in, or have the part of the Dynasty that would be the players, someday, travel to the Reach, while the old man stays administrating the Dynasty in the Expanse. Hmm, ideas…



#10 venkelos

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:27 AM

It's a bit of a shame that, for all of their fluff, certain spans of time, or events as a whole, are empty, or left vague. I would imagine that the seal of respect and mutual aide from the Raven Guards would have been acquired somewhere in the 36th or early 37th Millennium, but I'm not sure where Rogue Traders were busy, then (Calixis was still the Calyx Expanse, and forget the Koronus Expanse) nor what the Raven Guard were doing. It would be cool to just flub up that the Raven Guard helped fight against the forces of HL Vandire, in the early M36, and that the Rogue Trader of this ancient Warrant, at the time, assisted them in their endeavors, being that their fleet and numbers are often low, and this earned them the relationship, but that puts a Rogue Trader near, of all places, Earth, and I don't know how often people whose primary power is derived from leaving the Imperium make a point of returning to the middle of it.

Still, it could make for a good story, how this group of Rogue Trader and assets assisted the Raven Guard Space Marines in prosecuting their battles against the traitorous forces of Goge Vandire, and earned the "eternal" bond of fellowship (the Oath Bonded to the Angels of Death [Raven Guard] talent, and for less than 800 points) for their aide. Then, for 4,000 years, nothing, and now, one might have to wait and see if the Raven Guard still find the current bearers worthy of the respect their forebears once showed. And, would their aide even be available in the Expanse, a region known for having a little of everything in 40k, EXCEPT the Space Marines (minus the Grey Knights, my favorite, but a  different issue, all together).



#11 Warmaster Picklehauber

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:20 AM

Lots of great suggestions here already, but I would further add that the Space Marines are nobody's fool, not even the God Emperor's.

They would be dependable, ultimately, but they aren't baby-sitters and would resentfully bolt that the first sign of abuse of their graces or being used by the explorers like the Imperial Guard. So Explorers probably shouldn't call on their aid very often, typically in an advice or administrative capacity only, "Lord Captain, we most certainly appreciate your return of  the Venerable Brother Dreadnaught Simon Barsinister to our Chapter. It is because of this favor that we do not destroy your vessel immediately and, instead, merely depart. We leave you to the Emperor's grace . . ."

I see a permanent presence of a chapter with the explorers only after a long campaign of unquestioned loyalty to the Imperium, which may be difficult for most rogue traders, especially those with strong ties to the Cold Trade or friendly relations with Xenos. Maybe as a reward for a large meta-endeavor that has lots of religious goals?



#12 venkelos

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:51 AM

Warmaster Picklehauber said:

Lots of great suggestions here already, but I would further add that the Space Marines are nobody's fool, not even the God Emperor's.

They would be dependable, ultimately, but they aren't baby-sitters and would resentfully bolt that the first sign of abuse of their graces or being used by the explorers like the Imperial Guard. So Explorers probably shouldn't call on their aid very often, typically in an advice or administrative capacity only, "Lord Captain, we most certainly appreciate your return of  the Venerable Brother Dreadnaught Simon Barsinister to our Chapter. It is because of this favor that we do not destroy your vessel immediately and, instead, merely depart. We leave you to the Emperor's grace . . ."

I see a permanent presence of a chapter with the explorers only after a long campaign of unquestioned loyalty to the Imperium, which may be difficult for most rogue traders, especially those with strong ties to the Cold Trade or friendly relations with Xenos. Maybe as a reward for a large meta-endeavor that has lots of religious goals?

Yeah, I know it used to be fluff, but I see the idea of one or more Space Marines having a long-term presence on a RT's shi as silly. I can see getting a chance to call on their aide, if needed, and if they are available (not likely, even if you weren't already in the Expanse), but short of a Space Marine being held in stasis (that would be a nifty piece of "loot" to find in some hole), they would not be seen more than once. If the game were in the Reach, perhaps, one might have a slightly better shot at getting their one-time help, as many of the Chapters are at least minorly represented in the Lord-Militant's forces, but that would be a somewhat different, more war-themed game of RT (one I might keep considering more, liking more the feel of the Reach, and the more iconic bad guys (Orks, Eldar, and of course, Tau, Chaos, and Nids). Some of these are in the Expanse, and some more than in Jericho, but certain aspects of the Reach could be a bit more fun, and there are plenty of lost worlds there, just like in Koronus, without all the competition.



#13 UberMutant

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:09 AM

My players have a PC kill marine on board ship, a space wolf who was seconded from the Deathwatch as a reward for the incredibly selfless act of returning the bodies and equipment of a lost Deathwatch kill team and the mysterious cargo they were trying to recover. 7 Space Marine corpses, power armour, deathwatch equipment, it would have been worth a fortune on the black market.

More excitingly, there were two surviving marines who had lapsed into suspended animation and a very much awake deathwatch dreadnaught who had lost his mind but not his mission objective "Protect the Cargo, Death to the enemy!" BLAM BLAM BLAM plasma fire!. They were able to recover them all and teleport them back to thier ship after being pinned down by the Crystalwhisp infestation that had taken out the kill team in the first place (we had fun with the memory loss attack…..hard to RP but worth it for the players WTF!!!!!!! moment).

The Marines were very greatful for the return, especially since none of the equipment had any markings or seriel numbers left on it due to the datavores presence and could have easily been sold or kept by the RTs. In return they offered a Marine to serve with their house as a bodyguard and advisor (and of course, with various plots and secret missions of his own…..).



#14 Visitor Q

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

Depending on the Chapter and Rogue Trader it would actually be a perfect arrangement for both parties.

 

The Space Marines were founded for the Great Crusade and allying with the right type of martially minded Rogue Trader might rekindle the traditions of this time especially if the Marines themselves have for some reason a much depleted fleet.

Also certain canny and perhaps dubious Marine Chapter Masters might quite like the idea of establishing control over systems outside of direct Imperial rule. Imagine if the Tyrant of Badab had acted through the proxy of a Rogue Trader and the protection of a Warrant of Trade when establishing his dominion of the Maelstrom.

Space Marines live a very long time. It would not necessarily be a particularly big deal for a marine stranded on a world and rescued by a Rogue Trader to swear to serve him to repay the debt for a decade or more and then return to the Chapter.

Alternatively returning to the idea of a Chapter with a small fleet perhaps it is the Rogue trader that owes the Space Marines the debt. They saved his Dynasty from an Ork Waaagh (evacuating a colony, saving his ship etc) and now he has to transport small teams of marines to warzones where they can’t spare a fully-fledged Chapter vessel.

The Inquisition might want to keep a very overt eye on the Rogue Trader. A puritan Inquisitor might do this by posting a squad of tactical marines (from a Chapter that owe him a favour) on the Ship.

As for what a marine will and won’t do that is as varied as the number of Marine Chapters really

There are examples of Marines serving as civilian leaders, most notably the White Consuls but also to an extent the Salamanders. Marines are all about honour and duty but there is nothing to stop a Chapter providing the rogue Trader with a Quarter Master or a Techmarine.

Equally a marine might have taken a blood oath not to leave the vessel until he has reached a particular destination, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t give advice during various encounters.

Likewise a librarian might actually request voyage on the ship simply to research in the Librarium vault (there is ancient Grimoire stored there from 6000 years ago etc). He isn’t the remotely bit interested in the Rogue Traders Dynasty but it would simply be rude for him not to at least give some advice to certain thorny problems concerning how to deal with xenos nastiness (and woe betide any pirates who board and reach said Librarium vault….).

Really if you strip away all the extra fluff baggage and simply consider marines as very power warrior monks it is actually perfectly reasonable for a Rogue Trader to have at least one on board.

(N.B I played a Death Watch campaign which included an NPC Rogue trader with a White Scar bodyguard. Although this arrangement was never explained in the end).
 



#15 Warmaster Picklehauber

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

Visitor Q said:

id Librarium vault….).

 

Really if you strip away all the extra fluff baggage and simply consider marines as very power warrior monks it is actually perfectly reasonable for a Rogue Trader to have at least one on board.

 

 

All good ideas! In keeping with my original post, I would impart to the explorers that having any Astartes legionnaires on their vessel(s) was a very singular and special "reward". An often complicated and problematic award, that has its own motives and notions of what's best for Imperial citizens. Probably one that doesn't have a lot of patience for these effete nobles and their sinful dalliances.

In keeping with the monk aspect, at least historically, some chapters of Christian and Buddhist monks let their members experience time outside of the monastery in order to spread the word of their belief, aid their fellow man or even resist earthly temptations. Although a monk who's nearly the size of an Orgryn would not exactly melt into the crowd and would probably attract a lot of unwanted attention. Especially if that monk is in power armor. Maybe those issues are all just part of maintaining a sabbatical?

Also, this could be a form of penance for some bad (but not truly heretical) deed; perhaps a poor decision or mistake that lead to the deaths of several chapter members? A century outside the walls of the order righting his wrong (and boy is there a lot wrong with the rogue trader's void ship) as punishment!



#16 susanbrindle

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:23 AM

It's also possible that the RT and the Chapter simply had aligned interests for so long it became normal. The chapter Techpriest heard about a Rogue Trader who was going to go and unearth Archaeotech on a nearby world, joined the expedition, which uncovered more Archaeotech, and then later the Rogue Trader provided orbital bombardment for the chapter's homeworld, and eventually they got so used to working together that they routinely trade services.



#17 RobOut

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

I had an idea about one day running something where the Explorers come across either a wrecked station or ship. Auspex tells them there is a faint power source still active. On investigating they find lots of blown out/open to vac corridors - done by explosive charges placed on the doors. Eventually making it into an area that still has pressure they find a *crap* load of alien corpses and a Space marine missing an arm and a leg and in suspended animation due to the damage.

Assuming they recover the body, on plugging it in the armour gives some sort of coded message/advanced imperial distress message, etc.

If the Explorers track down the Marines Chapter (One whole arc?), there is a tense standoff until they can state their case, then they are boarded (without violence) and go through the whole 'meet people, be refused leave to depart'. A few weeks later they get to meet the rescued Marine, complete with new bionics.

He was part of another expedition that has long since vanished into the Expanse, wishes to try and find them, is given leave to depart with the Explorers…



#18 Sarvus von Blod

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

     What my Gm did is our Flag ship was sucked into the Warp and then spat out in the Processional of the Damned. We then proceeded to ram into a derelict Space Marine Battlebarge of the Red Skulls chapter. Turns out, the Red Skulls had been wiped out a few hundred years ago, so the 3 Terminators on board are the only left alive. They then, asked(with guns pointed at our faces and a swarm of dead murder servitors surrounding them) that we take them and some "special cargo" back to Imperial Space. Basically, we took the 3 Terminators, and about 500 Red Skulls geneseed to an area of space that we where able to transfer them to the Inquisition.

 

     We didn't ask any favors of them, but something like this could be a base for more friendly relations that could lead to them assisting us, or our Dynasty, in the futre



#19 Cryhavok

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

Off the top of my head, a scenario that could work for what got you the alliance could be something like:

Raven Gaurd units were cut off and trapped behind enemy lines. Imperial forces were unable to move in to support. The rogue trader broke through to them, helped them accomplish thier objective and escaped with them, returning them to their chapter.

Generally I would say any sort of suitably heroic action that the rogue trader does to help the space marine chapter in question could qualify for what began their friendly association. But only if it is something the RT was not actually obligated to do, would have to be above and beyond the call of duty, and heroic both in my opinion.



#20 Decessor

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:05 AM

I was in a mixed RT/DW campaign that began during the Great Crusade. A well equipped rogue trader vessel with no less than three full squads of marines from different legions (each led by the space marine PCs). Some great rp with tensions between the SM factions, and between them and the mortals.

A 40k rogue trader game can accomodate space marines but there needs to be solid reasons why a space marine (or marines) are on board. They will also attract attention if they act publically (perhaps against the desires of the rogue trader) which could lead to all sorts of fun consequences. Chapters can easily have their own goals that do not align well with the rogue trader's!






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