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the Future of Warhammer Invasion LCG (important!)


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#1 Teokrata

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:13 AM

HI every one!

I hope that FFG will read that…

After the Worlds I understand how small popularity have Warhammer Invasion in USA. Thats the problem for FFG becouse the game don't bring enough profits. WHI is much more popular in "Warhammer mecca" I mean Europe, but there cards are selled by local distributors, not FFG itself. That what is matter for FFG is popularity of the game in USA, so they don't really care about Europe, sad but true. I though a lot about that and have some ideas about that how to make Warhammer Invasion more popular and more "living". I hope that YOU, Invasion players will support that issues and FFG will do some improvements. What can be better?

1) balance and rules - card game to be really "living" needs tournament scenes, needs to be competitive and to be such a game… players needs balance and clear rules, without many possible interpretations. whole year of Empire domination and combos like gathering the winds + arcane power leads to dislike and reluctance. players must be makers of their wins not just luck to set the combo or imbalanced overpowered deck like Empire before. Expirienced ex-magic players like Entropy and me can help developers to hold things right, FFG have to just ask for our help and keep FAQ up to date.

2) easy start - after few years we have 30 battlepacks, core ser and 3 deluxe expansions for Warhammer Invasion. Thats a lot of cards to buy for the beginners and remember that You need 3x core set, 3x Assault and 3x some battlepacks from Corruption Cycle… Joining Warhammer Invasion must be much easier for the new players! What FFG can do? Make revised coreset, Assault and battlepacks form the first cycle with all cards x3 !!! Remember that people who buy only core set will have more fun and better game experience, when they have all cards they need and core set game is not about lucky drawing Troll Vomit, Verena or Bloodthirster. FFG could also sell "Cycle Boxes" including all 6 battlepacks for better price. Another options is selling "predisigned theme decks" like Wizards do in Magic the Gathering. For example FFG can sell "ready to play" decks based on decklist of World Champion, Europe Champion, some race, cycle, trait or mechanic themes, etc These deck will always need improvments, but are cool idea to start the "Invasion".

3) expansions rate - new battlepack every month make "meta game" really unconstant, for example You start to develop new deck with new cards and when You just starting to finish… new cards changes everything… there is not enough time to test, play and enjoy new cards. there are also balance issues, becouse of cards dedicated for some race, when other factions don't have their own. I think that expansion with new 180 cards every 3 months is a perfect solution for players, local distributors and developers. I am pretty sure that almost every player will support that idea, Am I right? ;-)

4) Europe - the "Auld World" where players loves Warhammer… and Invasion ;-) We can organize international tournaments and great Europe Championships not as "side event" to other FFG games. All we need is "YES YOU CAN" from FFG and some bless. I hope that local distributors in Europe will help players to do that. Come on players! There are 70-80 players on tournaments in Poland, so We can do international event for 100+ Please FFG allow players and local distributors to do that and some support/promotion will be also nice - We will build your glory… and profits ;-)

 

 

 



#2 Arczi

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:15 AM

I agree with almost everything Teokrata said. I understand some of his ideas, like printing revised versions of older sets might be difficult to do, but it's not the most important thing.

Players will buy and collect cards anyway, if they will see cooperation from FFG. That means not only consultations with big communities to balance it, but also help them with organizing tournaments, to encourage people to play.

That's why, after many players from greater communities have met and we know that there are many people willing to play this game seriously, we should should organize next big tournaments, with Your cooperation. I understand this game is only one of many for You, but everyone wants to avoid next mistakes like 4-round World championships. Especially when we compare it to the big 80+people tournaments, that we have already organized.

Regards



#3 Virgo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

I support Teo and hope that if FFG doesn't want to invest too much into this game they at least will let us promote the game (allow Poland to organize European Championships for example).



#4 Teokrata

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:54 AM

THX dudes! I hope that other players from Poland and other countries like Germany, France or Italia will support this topic… and then international tournaments in Europe.



#5 Asuka

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

Agreed, it's a shame as this is such a good game, it just gets so little exposure.

 

Uthulan and first set really need to be re-printed as 3* quantities. Core set I can understand as it has so many cards (which is a shame as if you took away those draft cards and replaced them with proper cards you could get 3* of most things for the same printing cost…). Uthulan is just annoying at that ratio, having to get 3 copies for a couple of individual cards will put people off and looses the economic vibe that LCG's have going for them.

 

Anyway we have atleast one more cycle, so FFG must be turning a profit to some degree (I live in Australia and know of 3 game shops near me stocking WHI:I, one just the core set/expansions and the others with more variety) so I doubt it would be pulled anytime soon.



#6 tystax

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

i agree, we need some big tournaments in Europe. 



#7 HappyDD

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

Good thing you wrote "important" in the thread title, otherwise I wouldn't have imagined what gems of ideas were presented within. 

I agree that someone should ban Gathering of the Winds, or some other measure, but what is all this talk about profits, not enough profit, etc? Is that just something you made up? And while your offer to help is laudable, I think you've made your points clear enough on these forums before.  

Some people like many small battle packs, that's an issue of taste. And what is this about international tournaments? Do you not let people from other countries play in your tournaments? For example, could only Polish people play in the Polish Championships? If so, I doubt that's FFG official policy. 

Otherwise, Teokrata, I think you should just chill out with these posts. Your prophecy came true and we saw HE combo vs. HE combo at the World Championships, which a lot of people probably aren't happy with, so when the next FAQ comes out you can thank FFG for their wisdom or write another one of these impassioned pleas for reason , depending on whether or not they took all of your points into consideration.



#8 Horatius

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

I'm from Italy, and I support the post of Teokrata.



#9 Gothik

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

HappyDD said:

And what is this about international tournaments? Do you not let people from other countries play in your tournaments? For example, could only Polish people play in the Polish Championships? If so, I doubt that's FFG official policy. 

I`ve heard that Polish organizers had offered FFG that they will gladly organize official WH:I European Championship after the failure of Stahleck and for unknown reason FFG turned their offer down.

 



#10 Horatius

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

From Italy we would be in 20 to participate to European Championship organized in Poland, but…



#11 Djibi

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

I m the french champion of WHI and I support the post of Teokrata



#12 Doc9

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:14 AM

HappyDD said:

 Your prophecy came true and we saw HE combo vs. HE combo at the World Championships, which a lot of people probably aren't happy with…

 

What decks were played? Are there deck lists yet? What races were represented? Oh…and yeah, enough with all the posts. I like monthly battle packs.



#13 Entropy42

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:01 AM

I could be wrong on this, only FFG really knows, but I'm guessing they keep this game alive based on the purchases from non-competitive players.  Every tournament in the US has been pretty small, even Worlds.  It makes me think that competitive WHI players are a small portion of what is already probably a small market.

Hopefully they keep generating enough interest to keep the game going. 



#14 Vitamin T

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:42 AM

I had these same concerns after the massive drop in turnout between the 2010 and 2011 worlds events.

However, I dont feel like a post on the forums will really have much effect on what FFG does.  Many players had previously pointed out both the domination of empire and the strength of HE combo.  Honestly people were equally upset at how dominate destruction rush decks were very early in the games history and that issue was resolved through future card releases.  It has always appeared to me that FFG tends to sit on balance problems as long as possible to see if future cards can resolve the issues rather that reacting quickly to these kind of situations.  In fairness to them they did eventually restrict three empire cards and ban one as well so it isnt as if they never address these issues.  If the polish nationals had allowed unlimited Arcane power, they may have had the president they were waiting for to make the change before worlds, I dont know.

 

I totally support the idea of a European Championship, it seems like that world be a no brainer given the vast difference in popularity between the US and Europe.  I havent been able to develop a play group in my area at all and that the small group we had previously has almost entirely moved on to other games.  I dont think that the sales are any less than the sales for Cthulu and that game has been around for years, so I am not really worried about the future of the game at least until the current licensing agreement with games workshop is up for renewal.

 

The biggest issue I see with LCGs is certainly what you have mentioned, once the game has been out for a long time there is a pretty large barrier to entry with no card rotation.  I recently went through this experience with AGoT and it was pretty painful ponying up for years worth of LCG product all at once.  I dont know if there is really a solution to this issue though.  I have also though that some kind of 'precon decks' might be the best solution.  I have had several potential players tell me something like "I really just want to play orcs/dwarves/chaos/etc", at least with game of thrones you have the option of buying the single house focused precons to get you started.  Something like that, with maybe some additional copies of high use core set cards like burn it down to get a little overlap from current players might be a potential solution.  I just cant see FFG producing a x3 version of any of the old battle packs or box sets until they have sold through all of the current product.  That is how they have done things with other games like AGoT in the past anyhow.

 

Anyway, I guess the short version is that I agree with your sentiments.

 

TL



#15 Vitamin T

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:46 AM

I know that the finals were two HE combo decks.  From what I saw there the other two most popular deck builds were chaos control and Dark Elf Control.  My favorite deck I saw at worlds as the Spanish Champions deck which was a DE control deck that had a couple of non standard interesting cards in it.  I also played against a seemingly pretty standard Call the Brayheard deck and a solid Dwarf Grudge deck.

 

TL



#16 Teokrata

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:58 AM

Gothik said:

 

HappyDD said:

And what is this about international tournaments? Do you not let people from other countries play in your tournaments? For example, could only Polish people play in the Polish Championships? If so, I doubt that's FFG official policy. 

 

I`ve heard that Polish organizers had offered FFG that they will gladly organize official WH:I European Championship after the failure of Stahleck and for unknown reason FFG turned their offer down.

 

 

 

unfortunately thats true, We cannot get the common language with FFG, so the next European Championships (2012) will be probably another fail side event…

I want to thanks players for support, I belive that FFG will hear our voice and try to change some listed things. From our National Champion, DeerDance we heard that after Eternal War Cycle will be only deluxe expansions every 3 months, thats good. Much better for game meta and balance. Also upcomming is new FAQ, which probably will stop HE Arcane Combo (no-one hears me before Worlds, abut that how OP that combo is…) and also nerf the control domination of Chaos. We will see… We will play Invasion in Poland to the end of Invasion or Us ;-)



#17 Argoth

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:10 AM

I also support everything that has been written here! Now we ask FFG for more support and understanding our needs.



#18 Gnomeschool

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

Teokrata said:

we heard that after Eternal War Cycle will be only deluxe expansions every 3 months, thats good. Much better for game meta and balance.

That's nice!

I'm from Germany and I support your post.



#19 gr4ffi

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

I'am from germany. Actually i do like monthly battlepacks, but i support every single other point of Teokrata. European comunities are much bigger and still growing. FFG needs to try and focus a bit more on us.



#20 Mordechai

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:50 AM

I'm from Italy and I support every single point Teokrata wrote.

 






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