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#1 susanbrindle

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

So, two questions-

 

First off, Forearm Blades are both Defensive and Balanced, giving them a larger bonus to Parry than an actual shield. I'm fine with this, but isn't it a bit odd that knives on your arms is safer than a hunk of metal?

Second off, is there any upper limit to what can be parried? Can my dashing swordsmen swat aside a chaos dreadnought's power claws?



#2 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:05 AM

susanbrindle said:

So, two questions-

 First off, Forearm Blades are both Defensive and Balanced, giving them a larger bonus to Parry than an actual shield. I'm fine with this, but isn't it a bit odd that knives on your arms is safer than a hunk of metal?

Second off, is there any upper limit to what can be parried? Can my dashing swordsmen swat aside a chaos dreadnought's power claws?

While I haven't seen it in the errata, I'm pretty sure that the Forearm Blades should only have one of the two charactersitics: either Balanced or Defensive. (Based on the description, I would have to go with Defensive). I doubt they were intended to stack. It seems much more likely that if they were supposed to grant you +25% Parry the weapon quality would be expressed as "Special" with a description in the text. But, as you say, it is odd that knives on your arms gives you better protection than a shield. Mind you, these are power knives so who knows?

(Here's another way you might interpret the Balanced, Defensive qualities of the weapon: when the Power Field is not activated, the weapon works like a Knife (1d5) with the Balanced quality. When the Power Field is activated, it works as listed in the table: 1d10+1, Pen 4, Defensive.)

As to the upper limit to the type of attack you can parry: that's up to your GM, really. It also depends on how you interpret Parry. Defelcting a blow so that it doesn't cause damage doesn't necessarily mean stopping it completely: it could just mean taking just enough of the force to leave the charater undamaged or even some aggressive counter-strikes which are meant to put the enemy on his heels (resulting in a 'missed' attackl). We tend to be pretty generous with what you can parry but the GM will sometimes impose penalties for parrying attacks from creatures 2 or more sizes larger or smaller that the character.

 



#3 NGL

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Also, lets not forget they are classified as exotic not power weapons.  They are both balanced and defensive because that's what they are, and they require additional training to use.  Not to mention its attached to the arm freeing up the hands.

Additionally, why wouldn't the two qualities stack.  If you look at the mordian pattern power sword in the core rules it is balanced and provides an additional bonus to parry, without being defensive and suffering a penalty to attack, as well as presenting a superior damage profile.

Should those bonuses not stack, since it makes it arguably better than the forearm powerblade?  15 to parry vs 25 with no penalty to attack or need for additional talents.  If one can mount a range weapon to their forearm then as this weapon demonstrates one can certainly mount a power weapon.

I used to want a forearm powerblade, but settled for a retractable powersword mounted to my arm like the predator.

As to the second question, parrying something larger than you is likely to knock you back some I could see an opposed strength test if it really came down to it, or a penalty to parry such that it eventually wouldn't be possible.  In that case, your character would have to dodge if that was even possible.



#4 susanbrindle

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:02 AM

NGL said:

 

Also, lets not forget they are classified as exotic not power weapons.  They are both balanced and defensive because that's what they are, and they require additional training to use.  Not to mention its attached to the arm freeing up the hands.

Additionally, why wouldn't the two qualities stack.  If you look at the mordian pattern power sword in the core rules it is balanced and provides an additional bonus to parry, without being defensive and suffering a penalty to attack, as well as presenting a superior damage profile.

Should those bonuses not stack, since it makes it arguably better than the forearm powerblade?  15 to parry vs 25 with no penalty to attack or need for additional talents.  If one can mount a range weapon to their forearm then as this weapon demonstrates one can certainly mount a power weapon.

 

 

 

Well, my plan was to acquire a power fist to maximize damage, and forearm blades to maximize parry, and keep my old power sword so that parrying with the forearm blades is vaguely believable (As great as dual power fists would be, I can't justify blocking with my forearms if my hands, which are attached to my forearms, are both slow and unwieldy)

 

Two Weapon Fighting seems to be the way to go in melee anyway



#5 Fresnel

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:41 AM

 IMO a shield should generally better at parrying than is currently RAW. Someone trained to use a shield should be very difficult to land a hit on.



#6 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:42 AM

NGL said:

Also, lets not forget they are classified as exotic not power weapons.  They are both balanced and defensive because that's what they are, and they require additional training to use.  Not to mention its attached to the arm freeing up the hands.

Additionally, why wouldn't the two qualities stack.  If you look at the mordian pattern power sword in the core rules it is balanced and provides an additional bonus to parry, without being defensive and suffering a penalty to attack, as well as presenting a superior damage profile.

Should those bonuses not stack, since it makes it arguably better than the forearm powerblade?  15 to parry vs 25 with no penalty to attack or need for additional talents. 

Well, my initial feeling for why they don't stack is that they both give you varrying degrees of the same ability: being able to parry easier. The mordian-pattern specifies that it is Balanced (so takes no penalties for attack) but grants a +5% additional bonus to parry. If you feel the abilities do stack, then you can't pick and choose: an item that has both Defensive and Balanced (like these blades) would have +25% to parry but -10% to attack also. The Mordian-Pattern is +15% to parry and no attack penalty.

If your character is a melee specialist (especially if you have counter-attack), it's likely the Modrian is a better choice than the Exotic blades. On the other hand, if you're a heavy weapon specialist who wants a defensive edge when you get drawn into melee, the Forearm blades make a great choice because they keep your hands free. They also seem like a good choice for someone with poor Dodge and WS who's looking for a way to give themselves a boost. Or someone who fights with pistols in melee.

The argument that something is classfied as Exotic and should therefore be' better' is great in theory but isn't always borne out in the stats in the books and isn't universally true in all situations and for all characters. Is a Digi-Las 'better' than a Hellpistol? A Needle Pistol? It really depends on the situation and the objective.

NGL said:

If one can mount a range weapon to their forearm then as this weapon demonstrates one can certainly mount a power weapon.

Except for the fact that RAW only Pistol weapons can be forearm mounted, of course.

NGL said:

I used to want a forearm powerblade, but settled for a retractable powersword mounted to my arm like the predator.

Funny, that was how I imagined the forearm blades.

Does sound pretty cool. I should invest in something like that for my Moritat in DH. Though I'm afraid I'll be too much like Ezio from the Assassin's Creed games.



#7 Fgdsfg

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:17 AM

I have a related question;

It is clear to me that Defensive and Balanced are supposed to stack. After all, Defensive comes with it's own tradeoff.

But is there anything preventing me from getting two Forearm Powerblades, for a bonus of +50 to Parry, use them exclusively for parrying, while equipping myself with whatever weapons I want in my free hands, to use for attacks?

…and if both the weapons in my hands are balanced, wouldn't that be another +20 Parry?


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#8 Fresnel

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:07 AM

What about a more standard configuration of a chainsword and combat shield? That way you can get the Balanced from the Chainsword and Defensive from the combat shield…

As a GM I would say you parry with one, not both.



#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

Any given parry (or any given attack) is made with a single weapon and only uses the modifier for that weapon. This is why a thunder hammer and storm shield works - the hammer's attack isn't penalized by the shield's traits nor is the shield's parry hampered by the hammer's traits.


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#10 susanbrindle

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

Fgdsfg said:

I have a related question;

It is clear to me that Defensive and Balanced are supposed to stack. After all, Defensive comes with it's own tradeoff.

But is there anything preventing me from getting two Forearm Powerblades, for a bonus of +50 to Parry, use them exclusively for parrying, while equipping myself with whatever weapons I want in my free hands, to use for attacks?

…and if both the weapons in my hands are balanced, wouldn't that be another +20 Parry?

 

Also, Forearm Powerblades are a pair anyway. While I suppose you could mount multiple blades on each arm, it wouldn't help, because, as has been mentioned, you only parry with one weapon.



#11 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:39 AM

If the consensus is that they stack, sounds like I need to make some recommendations for our regenerating, pistol-specialised Arch-Militant character.



#12 Fgdsfg

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:01 AM

susanbrindle said:

 

Fgdsfg said:

 

I have a related question;

It is clear to me that Defensive and Balanced are supposed to stack. After all, Defensive comes with it's own tradeoff.

But is there anything preventing me from getting two Forearm Powerblades, for a bonus of +50 to Parry, use them exclusively for parrying, while equipping myself with whatever weapons I want in my free hands, to use for attacks?

…and if both the weapons in my hands are balanced, wouldn't that be another +20 Parry?

 

 

 

Also, Forearm Powerblades are a pair anyway. While I suppose you could mount multiple blades on each arm, it wouldn't help, because, as has been mentioned, you only parry with one weapon.

Drat! I knew something was wrong. I checked, and yeah, you can only Parry with one weapon. D:

As for the first note, you're wrong. Forearm Powerblades does not come in pairs, as you can read on the description on pg. 125 of Into the Storm. They're their own single-weapons.

 


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.





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