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GM 's dillema - Firing blindly over cover


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#1 Xathrodox86

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:07 AM

As a new Dark Heresy GM, I was wondering how exactly do you guys handle blind fire? I know that it says in the rulebook that you cannot fire on a target that you don't see, but I think that's rather silly. Why can't a PC just stick a gun over an obstacle and fire away? There should be penalties ofc ourse, rather big in fact, but I think that this still should be possible. I would like to know your opinions on this matter. Thanks!


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#2 vogue69

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

blind fire is -30. of course you can't aim. But i guess range counts.



#3 vehzeel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

Not that the character would actually hit anything, but the fire can scare enemies (unless you play strictly by RAW in which case it doesn't have any impact what so ever and enemies and players alike act totally rational despite potentially being shot if they stay in the open).



#4 Xathrodox86

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

vogue69 said:

blind fire is -30. of course you can't aim. But i guess range counts.

Thanks for the reply, but I can't find the source on blind fire -30. Where is it? Is it in the rulebook? When you have the blind trait it says that you can't test BS at all.


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#5 vogue69

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

Xathrodox86 said:

vogue69 said:

 

blind fire is -30. of course you can't aim. But i guess range counts.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, but I can't find the source on blind fire -30. Where is it? Is it in the rulebook? When you have the blind trait it says that you can't test BS at all.

i tried to find it but I couldn't. I am pretty sure I read that somewhere. Maybe it's from firing at an invisible target? I really don't know, I only know we play like that for a long time.



#6 Face Eater

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:53 AM

I've only got the DW rulesbook to hand but I'm sure it's the same in DH. Difficulty Skill Modifier, Very Hard –30, Shooting at a completely
concealed target / Shooting at a target in darkness.

And if you are just trying to scare enemies there the 'SuppressIng Fire' action covers this exactly.



#7 Darth Smeg

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

I recall having read something about "spray and pray" somewhere, and I think it was BS -30. 


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#8 borithan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

I would be a bit more cruel than -30: Can only be used as a supressive fire action, and cannot generate any damaging hits. The Pinning test required by those in the zone is made up at +10 rather than -20.

If you are wanting to make that shot to hit someone you are going to suffer some sort of risk for it goddam it! Also feel it is justified, as the -30 for shooting at a concealed target is presuming you have at least got the stable firing base of holding your gun properly, rather than randomly waving it about in one hand over your head/off to one side.

As far as RAW is concerned I don't think it is technically possible. The rules presume that if you are shooting at something you are exposing something from behind cover (Torso, arms and head if standing behind a small wall, just arms and head if crouched properly behind cover. Only one of the arms and head if using a pistol). Just pocking your gun over the wall, exposing nothing, is just not in the rules (and in my opinion not within the spirit). It could be covered by the -30 for shooting at a totally concealed target, but that is more for shooting through a wall to hit a target whose position you know roughly, but with clear line of site to the wall (and the stable firing position I mentioned earlier).



#9 Zenoth16

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

I know there is a sight that lets you shoot around a corner without exposing yourself. I think it is in Into the Storm.



#10 Darth Smeg

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

The Rogue Trader rulebook has the following to say on the subject:

Spray and Pray
One of the basic requirements for making an attack
is that the attacker needs to aware of his target. But
why can’t someone just blast away into the darkness
in hopes of hitting whatever might be hiding there?
This is possible of course, but it shouldn’t be treated
as a normal attack. Instead, the GM should simply
decide the likely outcome of such an action, taking all
appropriate factors into consideration. For example, if
the GM knows there is a hulking xenos monstrosity
lurking in the darkness, it makes sense that it would
be hit by a random volley of gunfire shot in its general
direction. 


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#11 Face Eater

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:15 AM

borithan said:

I would be a bit more cruel than -30: Can only be used as a supressive fire action, and cannot generate any damaging hits. The Pinning test required by those in the zone is made up at +10 rather than -20.

If you are wanting to make that shot to hit someone you are going to suffer some sort of risk for it goddam it! Also feel it is justified, as the -30 for shooting at a concealed target is presuming you have at least got the stable firing base of holding your gun properly, rather than randomly waving it about in one hand over your head/off to one side.

As far as RAW is concerned I don't think it is technically possible. The rules presume that if you are shooting at something you are exposing something from behind cover (Torso, arms and head if standing behind a small wall, just arms and head if crouched properly behind cover. Only one of the arms and head if using a pistol). Just pocking your gun over the wall, exposing nothing, is just not in the rules (and in my opinion not within the spirit). It could be covered by the -30 for shooting at a totally concealed target, but that is more for shooting through a wall to hit a target whose position you know roughly, but with clear line of site to the wall (and the stable firing position I mentioned earlier).

Don't forget that the Supressive fire test is already -20 with no modifiers for auto-fire. So that's a hefty -50. I agreed still having the -20 on the pinning test still makes it v powerful, possibly too much so (if you've never used supressive fire in this game before you are missing a trick).

 



#12 Nameless2all

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

Yes, enemies with Heavy Stubbers and utilizing suppressive fire was a bane to my PC's.  They hated me for doing that for weeks.    Mind you, their Autoguns worked just the same when they realized this.


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