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Questions about Machine Spirits and Power Armor


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#1 jabberwoky

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:11 AM

Two questions:

  1. My void-master (who took Master of Small Craft), wants to improve his gun-cutter.  In essence, he wants to have a homing beacon that he can call his ship with.  For example, the group is trapped and needs a way out.  The teleportarium on the ship is out of commission, but with a few presses of buttons, suddenly the void master's gun-cutter comes through the clouds like a rescuing angel, allowing the group to escape.  My question, is this possible by the Warhammer 40K fluff?  I know there are highly advanced machine spirits, such as those found in space marine drop pods and land raiders, but would it be tech-heresy to put such an advanced spirit onto something so humble as a smuggler's gun-cutter?  Or if it isn't heretical, how expensive should the acquisition be?
  2. My group wants power armor.  I'm fine with this, but I have a question: civilian power packs last roughly 1d5 hours.  Are there higher-grade power packs that last longer, and where are their stats located?  Or is it the point of power armor to last for small encounters?


#2 Regis Eisen

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

As far as the gun-cutter goes, you don't need a machine spirit for that, you only need a pilot servitor.  Now, the servitor may need improvements to maximize it's piloting skill and agility, but that should be sufficient to allow the gun-cutter to operate in that way.  A quick, binary burst containing coordinates and emergency status, and it can arrive, guns blazing if need be, to save your butt.



#3 Nameless2all

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

jabberwoky said:

 

Two questions:

  1. My void-master (who took Master of Small Craft), wants to improve his gun-cutter.  In essence, he wants to have a homing beacon that he can call his ship with.  For example, the group is trapped and needs a way out.  The teleportarium on the ship is out of commission, but with a few presses of buttons, suddenly the void master's gun-cutter comes through the clouds like a rescuing angel, allowing the group to escape.  My question, is this possible by the Warhammer 40K fluff?  I know there are highly advanced machine spirits, such as those found in space marine drop pods and land raiders, but would it be tech-heresy to put such an advanced spirit onto something so humble as a smuggler's gun-cutter?  Or if it isn't heretical, how expensive should the acquisition be?
  2. My group wants power armor.  I'm fine with this, but I have a question: civilian power packs last roughly 1d5 hours.  Are there higher-grade power packs that last longer, and where are their stats located?  Or is it the point of power armor to last for small encounters?

 

 

1.  As Regis Eisen described.  So it is quite possible, and feasible.  How much should it cost, well, for a RT just an acquisition roll.  Not even a PF drop.  But, mind you, the beacon would have to be quite powerful, like backpack size, in order to reach a ship in orbit around the planet or maybe up to 1-2 VU's away.  Other things would obviously hinder this, like mountains, being underground, jamming from the enemy, in a ceramite/armaplas building able to somewhat withstand orbital strikes, powers of the warp, etc etc.  You get the idea.    So it might not be a "get out of jail free card" all the time.

2.  This is civilian power armour.  It was made this way so people would not be running around with it all the time.  If you want to allow them to get Military Grade Battery Packs for their power armour, that is your call.  There are no listed rules for acquiring these, because they were not initially meant to be acquired.  So, you are free game to stipulate how expensive and exotic they are.  Maybe 1-2 PF cost, in-depth role playing, and/or a mini Endeavor would be required to get a couple.  But the choice is yours to make.  And no, they cannot convert Space Marine battery packs to be used with their civilian power armour (had a guy ask to do this, and I told him it would be considered Heresy to tamper with SM equipment, and it would be a great idea to return this relic to a local SM Chapter for brownie points with them :).  Heck, if your characters are BC type ones, they might be able to create tech-heresy devices to power the armour.  This would probably take awhile, but it could be accomplished.


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#4 jabberwoky

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

Looking through Blood of Martyrs, I see that the Adepta Sororitas have power packs very similar to Space Marines and even have rules on the said power pack getting harmed by enemy fire.  They have an infinite life time given maintenance, but can be harmed if the character is hurt from behind.  I'm thinking that the power pack and the power armor require two different acquisition rolls, both at the acquisition modifiers of the armor.



#5 Nameless2all

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

jabberwoky said:

Looking through Blood of Martyrs, I see that the Adepta Sororitas have power packs very similar to Space Marines and even have rules on the said power pack getting harmed by enemy fire.  They have an infinite life time given maintenance, but can be harmed if the character is hurt from behind.  I'm thinking that the power pack and the power armor require two different acquisition rolls, both at the acquisition modifiers of the armor.

Yes this could work.  But remember, the Adepta Sororitas is a distinct Imperial organization.  The RT is more of a free lance civilian with possible military backing.  Hence civilian issued Power Armour.  I had a group were I allowed them to purchase power packs that lasted 24-48 hrs until needing to be recharged.  Like off of their Chimera APC or a generator.  Like I said though, it is your call.  Happy gaming though. 


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#6 Fresnel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:22 AM

 Tech-priests have access to Dragon Scale, which runs from the Potentia Coil p137, Dark Heresy, Inquistors Handbook.

Standard RT power armour is 65kg. I cannot see any reference to how much the power pack weighs, but perhaps 5kg? If so a PC might be able to carry spares. How long a pack lasts would depend greatly on activity. I would consider the listed D5 hours to refer to combat operation. Sitting down the power drain would be minimum, a pack might last days.

If we bring real world physics to the table then modern batteries can achieve 200Wh per kg. So 5kg would be 1kWh. If we assume WH40k crystral batteries are x10 the charge density, then a 5kg crystral battery would contain 10kWh. What would be the power load of Power Amour? Imo combat load might be 2kW, if we assume fairly inefficient actuators. This gives us near the listed 5 hours of combat operation.

In fact you can get a Real World ™ 2kW generator for camping which weighs about 25kg. Replace the 4-stroke engine with a turbine and you can half the weight. So I could imagine a promethium backpack generator being fitted to power armour, running on flamer ammo. So if your PCs don't mind the smoking exhaust pipe they can have 24 hour operation.

In any case a compact fusion generator backpack should be no more than extremely rare imo.

 

 

 



#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

Fresnel said:

 Tech-priests have access to Dragon Scale, which runs from the Potentia Coil p137, Dark Heresy, Inquistors Handbook.

Standard RT power armour is 65kg. I cannot see any reference to how much the power pack weighs, but perhaps 5kg? If so a PC might be able to carry spares. How long a pack lasts would depend greatly on activity. I would consider the listed D5 hours to refer to combat operation. Sitting down the power drain would be minimum, a pack might last days.

If we bring real world physics to the table then modern batteries can achieve 200Wh per kg. So 5kg would be 1kWh. If we assume WH40k crystral batteries are x10 the charge density, then a 5kg crystral battery would contain 10kWh. What would be the power load of Power Amour? Imo combat load might be 2kW, if we assume fairly inefficient actuators. This gives us near the listed 5 hours of combat operation.

In fact you can get a Real World ™ 2kW generator for camping which weighs about 25kg. Replace the 4-stroke engine with a turbine and you can half the weight. So I could imagine a promethium backpack generator being fitted to power armour, running on flamer ammo. So if your PCs don't mind the smoking exhaust pipe they can have 24 hour operation.

In any case a compact fusion generator backpack should be no more than extremely rare imo.

 

 

 

If we extend the same treatment that weapons have, then a power pack would have 1/10 the weight of the armour (so 6.5 kg each) and the character would have three such packs as a standard load. Assuming that the character can handle another 19.5 kg of load, 3d5 hours of battery life is fairly useful (but still pretty damn random) for most combat situations, but it still doesn't allow for power armour to be worn all the time. It does make power armour somewhat like a smartphone in areas without easy access to an outlet…


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#8 Fresnel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:07 AM

Power Amour gives enhanced carrying capacity. If we take your 6.5kg figure and give the character a 26kg backpack this would give 4D5 hours of combat operation, average 12 hours, with a tight distribution. If an engagement lasted more than 5 hours, then typically a unit would need to be re-supplied anyway. Power armour supplies would be delivered with the ammo et al.

If you are near generator, like a Chimera, then you could cycle two packs for continual operation. But all this in combat operation. In normal situations a standard supply should last all day imo, and if you are on the ship swapping a supply isn't going to be a problem anyway - a senior crewman (a RT PC) will have servants to sort out minor details like this. So I see no reason a PC couldn't wear power armour while on duty.

In any case a backpack generator shouldn't be an issue if the RT can afford power armour in the first place. The only issue is there is currently no official listing for one.



#9 venkelos

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

On the barest of bits, I might say thus; DH: Ascension (duck hurdled chair ) has the Ignatius-Pattern Power Armor (Ascen., p.143). PA Suits Inquisitors don have a battery life of 5 days, and are ER rarity. Now, you aren't an Inquisitor, though in many ways a Rogue Trader might be close, but you COULD attempt to go through some channels, maybe even through an Inquisitor you have a passing association with, and could try to acquire these suits, or at least the packs. I would think that, perhaps, the pack would be Extremely Rare, while the whole suit might bump up to Near Unique; this is mostly to give the Inquisitor a little advantage, but you could just use the same rarity they get.

This solution could trump all the quandaries, as it says it's PA, says its battery life, and isn't special issue to the Astartes or Sororitas, but more high-grade armor used by the Inquisition, but in no way claimed to ONLY be available to them.



#10 Nameless2all

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

I like your style Venkelos. 


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#11 Fresnel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

 Imo a better battery pack seems like a small issue. 

Imo all imperial STC Power Armour variants would come with a standard power interface. What power source you attach would be up to the user.

So all we need is a power source table, like:

Standard Heavy Battery, Rare, 6.5kg, can also be used as Las Cannon clip. Can power a long range vox for weeks.

Battery Backpack, Rare, 25kg, can also be used a Las Cannon supply, Can power a long range vox for months

Chemical Generator backpack, Rare, 25kg, uses flamer ammo canisters (0.6kg each). Can provide baseload power for any man portable equipment (not peak-load devices like las cannons), but may also be used to run automated systems like turrets and similar. Poor quality versions are loud and smoky, best quality are silent and smokeless. Each canister lasts 6 hours at maximum rated output.

Man-portable plasma generator, Extremely Rare, 25kg, uses plasma canisters (1.6kg each). Same output as chemical generator. Each canister lasts 6 days at maximum rated output.

Man-portable fusion generator, near unique, 25kg, not refuelable in the field. Output as chemical generator, but will last for years at maximum rated output.

 

 

 






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