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Another Encounter timing question.


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#1 AussieKSU

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:37 AM

The runner has datasucker in play with ample counters on it. The runner also has parasite hosted on a rezzed piece of ice - tollbooth.

 

When making a run on the server which tollbooth is protecting, the runner encounters tollbooth, and uses enough of the datasucker virus counters to reduce the strength of tollbooth to 0, thus trashing it because of parasite. Does the runner need to pay 3 credits for the effect of encountering tollbooth.

 

I understand this is another timing question, but there is a nuance with when the timing of datasucker is allowed. Does the runner first "encounter" tollbooth, and the only effect allowed to be resolved is tollbooth's? Or, immediately when enountering tollbooth, the runner may trigger datasucker as well?

 

 



#2 Ser Folly

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

As I understand it, the timing structure says that both paying the 3 cred for tollbooth and the paid ability of Datasucker have the same trigger condition. As far as I remember the active player triggers his ability (Datasucker) first. Thus crashing Tollbooth.

page 21 corerules:

Timing Priority
Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez
cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn
and after each action), the player who is currently taking his
turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many
abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as
he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the
other player gets the opportunity to act.

 

But I might be mistaken…


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#3 Toqtamish

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

edited reply:

Okay, having read over both cards now that I have some time what you want to look at is the timing of a run chart.

3.            The Runner encounters a piece of ice. (‘When encountered’ conditionals meet their trigger conditions)
3.1 Icebreakers can interact with the encountered ice,
(Paid abilities can be triggered)

So the ice is encountered first before paid abilities can be triggered in the end of 3.1. Tollbooths ability is "When the Runner encounters Tollbooth" So Tollbooth would trigger. Therefore you would have to pay the 3 credits before being able to trash Tollbooth with Parasite.

 

 



#4 Ser Folly

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:58 PM

Toqtamish said:

3.            The Runner encounters a piece of ice. (‘When encountered’ conditionals meet their trigger conditions)
3.1 Icebreakers can interact with the encountered ice,
(Paid abilities can be triggered)

So the ice is encountered first before paid abilities can be triggered in the end of 3.1. Tollbooths ability is "When the Runner encounters Tollbooth" So Tollbooth would trigger. Therefore you would have to pay the 3 credits before being able to trash Tollbooth with Parasite.

  

Sorry mate but I still think that my timing concept is right since DATASUCKER is a virus program and not an icebreaker and as that it would count as a triggered ability when encountering ICE.

Some other judgements on that, please…


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#5 Angus Lee

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:29 PM

Ser Folly said:

 

Toqtamish said:

 

3.            The Runner encounters a piece of ice. (‘When encountered’ conditionals meet their trigger conditions)
3.1 Icebreakers can interact with the encountered ice,
(Paid abilities can be triggered)

So the ice is encountered first before paid abilities can be triggered in the end of 3.1. Tollbooths ability is "When the Runner encounters Tollbooth" So Tollbooth would trigger. Therefore you would have to pay the 3 credits before being able to trash Tollbooth with Parasite.

  

 

 

Sorry mate but I still think that my timing concept is right since DATASUCKER is a virus program and not an icebreaker and as that it would count as a triggered ability when encountering ICE.

Some other judgements on that, please…

 

 

Look at what Toqtamish quoted closely, Tollbooth's effect is triggered at number 3, and then Datasucker's effect, which is a paid ability, can only be triggered at 3.1.  So Toqtamish's interpretion is correcy.  The text in parentheses in number 3.1 does not limit to Icebreakers, but generally all paid abilities.


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#6 Ser Folly

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:54 PM

Well, strictly speaking you are right. But that is really just a matter of wording as DATASUCKER does not have the text 'when encountering ice' but 'the piece of ice currently being encountered'. That's a minute difference but definitely a difference. I have to admit…

 


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#7 Toqtamish

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:56 AM

Read again please. It is not a minute difference at all it is a different thing. Datasucker is not triggered by the encounter or anything like that. Datasucker has a PAID ABILITY(As per the rules on page 21: Paid abilities- In order to trigger a paid ability, a trigger cost must be paid. The most common trigger costs are spending clicks, credits, or hosted counters, and trashing cards. A card’s trigger cost is always listed in its text box before the effect, following the format “cost: effect.) worded as Hosted virus counter:. You need to remove a virus counter to activate it's ability. This is done at the end of step 3.1 as I already illustrated earlier in this thread.

Tollbooth on the other hand has a conditional ability (Conditional abilities- In order for a conditional ability to trigger, a trigger condition must be met. A conditional ability can only be resolved once per trigger condition. Trigger conditions commonly use the terms “When” or “Whenever” in their card text) This is done in Step 3 before the end of Step 3.1 where paid abilities can be triggered.

 



#8 AussieKSU

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:32 AM

Lovely, thank you.






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