Jump to content



Photo

Having initiative is bad?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Adeptus_Momarus

Adeptus_Momarus

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:04 AM

From my understanding of the rules it seems as though having initiative is actually a disadvantage. Initiative does two things when the players have pilots with tied skill- one is that the player with initiative activates his ships first, and the other is that the player with initiative fires first during the combat phase.

While moving your ship first can be an advantage, such as when trying to provoke a collision to cost the other player actions, activating after you see the opponent move allows you be better informed when choosing actions. More to the point, ships with higher pilot skill- which cost more squad points and therefore should be superior- activate later, so it follows that the game's default assumption is that activating after the opponent is an advantage. So in this regard having initiative makes your pilot act as though their pilot skill is lower than the opponent's.

During the combat phase the player with initiative will fire first. Firing first is usually a big advantage, as it allows you to potentially remove opposing ships before they can act. Initiative only matters in cases of equal pilot skill though, and by the simultaneous actions section on pg. 16 of the rulebook all pilots of equal skill get an opportunity to fire before being removed from play due to damage. It is possible that firing first would be an advantage in this case, as any ships that have yet to fire must abide by critical damage effects  that may have been imposed upon them, but this requires that the killing blow both involved a critical hit, and that that critical hit affects attacking in some way (8 of 33 cards potentially could, with 4 of those being situational). Firing second give you more information to make your choice on, as you'll know if a ship might survive or not. This advantage is also somewhat situational, as it requires a set up where you might choose a different action knowing that a ship is about to explode anyway- firing a torpedo or blowing a target lock on a normal attack in range 1 instead of saving it for instance- but it is certainly an advantage. With this little bit of give and take having initiative in the combat phase a wash at best.

It's possible that having initiative is no supposed to be an advantage, so the rule just exists to give direction for tied pilot skill resolution, but there are a few things that suggest that it is supposed to be an advantage. First, generally in gaming winning or having the initiative is a good thing, and I imagine most gamers will find it somewhat contradictory that it's actually bad here (though as a side note the way it's used in x-wing matches a more literal definition of initiative). Second, in tournament rules it's the winner of the coin toss that has initiative, and again traditionally winning a coin toss provides an advantage, not a penalty. Finally, if players do not have the same squad value initiative goes to the player with fewer points. Squad value is a metric of how powerful your group is, and it really doesn't make sense for the player who brings a weaker (by value) squadron to the table to be additionally penalized.

Short version: Having initiative makes you activate and fire first in cases of tied pilot skill, but activating later is better and firing first is a wash at best since the other pilots in the same skill group all get to fire before dying. So initiative is a bad thing, which is odd.

Thoughts? 

 

 



#2 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

Yes, it is bad most of the time. They should change the rules so the player with the lower squad point total either doesn't have initiative or gets to choose who gets it.



#3 dvang

dvang

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

One advantage to moving first:

You know where your opponent's ship currently is. It is easier to avoid collisions. Moving afterwards, you have to avoid moving to where your opponent could move to.



#4 Chairborne

Chairborne

    Member

  • Members
  • 74 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:54 AM

dvang, isn't this where 'Pilot' skill comes into play? Just saying…



#5 Fabster

Fabster

    Member

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:01 AM

dvang said:

 

One advantage to moving first:

You know where your opponent's ship currently is. It is easier to avoid collisions. Moving afterwards, you have to avoid moving to where your opponent could move to.

 

 

 

I haven't tested this option yet but I will try to introduce a house rule that every ship can forfeit their action step to change the maneuver they want to perform just before they move. This way expert pilots could avoid collision with rookies (which for me makes sense). What do you think?



#6 drkjedi35

drkjedi35

    Member

  • Members
  • 389 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:52 PM

I think playing within the rules as they are written is the best option.  If you get some practice in maneuvering you'll cut down on overlaps (there are no collisions in this game).  Once you get better at predicting your opponents maneuvers and choosing your own, this won't be as big of an issue for you.

Roy



#7 Duraham

Duraham

    Member

  • Members
  • 894 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

 moving first has a very big disadvantage when trying to chase someone with higher skill points though, because you would not want to choose a maneuver that would put you on where he currently is as you would lose an action, but that very spot often tends to be the best position to catch him, eg. for the imperials, you could barrel roll left/right to catch his 3rd speed turns , and any other moves he makes would still have him end up within your arc of fire. If you were to move later, you can occupy that spot without losing an action, and your barrel rolls become more precise on top of that.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS