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#1 Darth Smeg

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:55 AM

… when Distort Vision does it better?

Both are Free Actions, neither are sustainable.

Precog. Dodge only works v. Ranged attacks, whilst  Distort Vision works on all attacks, and is easier to manifest as well as being cheaper (minor power as opposed to a full Discipline power).

Am I missing something?


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#2 vehzeel

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

Nope, you're right. It doesn't make sense. Suggested changes (pick the ones you like :) ):

DV is removed altogether.

DV only effect one enemy, while PD effects all hostiles.

PD works against all incoming attacks.

DVs obfuscating effect is weakened to -10.

The effect of DV is immediatly broken if he attacks, while PD isn't.

PD lasts for Psy rating x0.5-1 rounds (rounded up)

PD can be cast on others.

PD increases Dodge by +30 instead of decreasing the BS of the attackers (or maybe the minor power should increase the casters ability and the major power should lower the ability of the enemies).



#3 Denmar1701

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

I am not sure off the top of my head, but I think the errata changed how the minor ability worked, so it was much less effective.


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#4 Darth Smeg

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

True, I was referring to the "reduced" version. Originally, it would make you appear 10m beside your actual position, and everyone would miss. Period.

The only upside to Precog. Dodge I can see, is that it lasts until "the end of your next turn", whereas Distort Vision lasts until the start of your next turn. Though I can't think of any situation where that might make a difference.  


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You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#5 Saldre

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:40 AM

I've always played PD to be sustainable and applied it to both melee and ranged attacks- which should make it much, MUCH better.

Not to mention, a piece of gear like Infra-red or anything like that breaks the minor power, whereas the other plays more like an actual Psyker seeing the future and positioning himself as to avoid being in harms way reflexively. 

But I haven't had a Psyker go into that branch yet, but I am planning to have a Psyker kick the group's ass soon, and he's going to have it. 

 



#6 Faern

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

 Pretty sure that PD cant be cast on anyone other then yourself .. sadly.. I wish there were more powers to use on your group :(



#7 Maverikk

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

Errata reads as follows:

 

With this power your physical form distorts and you almost fade from view. Your precise location becomes extremely difficult to discern, and until the start of your next turn all attacks against you suffer a –30 penalty to hit. Characters with the Blind Fighting Talent only suffer a –10 penalty. A successful Challenging (+0) Psyniscience Test removes this penalty for the attacker. Sensory equipment based on standard optical sensors are fooled by this power; ones that read thermal patterns, use motion sensors, or rely on some other form of detection are not. Creatures and sensors that do not rely on sight are not affected by this power.

 

Enjoy.



#8 Darth Smeg

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

If you see post #3 in this thread, I was referring to the Errata version of the power. 

Before the Errata it was even better. But even now, after revision, the Minor Power is more powerful than the more expensive Discipline one.


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You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#9 PnPgamer

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:20 AM

two words:

they stack.



#10 Humanas

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

Precognitive dodge is a reaction while distort vision takes a free action to use, meaning you have to use distort vision on your turn and sustain it during the opponents action while precognitive dodge can be used as your reaction.

Also dont forget that according to the errata "A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round…" In my group we change that slightly and allow the psyker to use reaction powers even if he has already used another power, so as not to render reaction powers useless.



#11 Darth Smeg

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

PnPgamer said:

two words:

they stack.

You can only focus one power each round, and as neither are sustainable, they cannot stack.


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#12 Darth Smeg

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

Humanas said:

Precognitive dodge is a reaction…

Not so.

From the Dark Heresy Rulebook, p 172
"Precognitive Dodge

Threshold: 11
Focus Time: Free Action
Sustained: No"
 
I cannot see anything in the Errata v3.0 that changes this.
 
As far as I can tell, the only situations where Precog. Dodge would be better is where you are being shot at by a person with either a thermal/motion sensor or is skilled in Psynisciense.
 
In all other situations, the cheaper and simpler Minor Power is as good, or better.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#13 Humanas

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:11 AM

Oups, my bad! You are right, Tzeentch tricked me into believing Precognitive Dodge was a reaction.

And yes it is really weak right now, are there any other similar powers in other books so we can compare and maybe rework it ?



#14 Darth Smeg

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:56 AM

Well, sneaking a peak at Only War, the most similar power there would be:

FOREBODING

 

Value: 200xp
Prerequisites: Psyniscience Rank 1
Action: Reaction
Focus Power: Difficult (–10) Perception Test
Range: Self
Sustained: No
Subtype: Concentration
Description: The psyker’s awareness of the Warp grants him the means to elude his opponents’ attacks without needing to rely on mortal reflexes. He
walks through the battlefield unscathed, dodging incoming fire with a simple ease. In any situation where the psyker would be called upon to make an Evasion Test, he may instead attempt to use this power. If the power is successful, the psyker avoids the attack exactly as if he has passed an Evasion Test.
 
Of course, the focusing rules are completely different, but this basically lets the Psyker use his preferred stats, boosted by his Psy Rating, to Dodge, instead of relying on Agility and the Dodge skill.
 
But I'm not convinced. I think the problem is that many DH Minor Powers are VERY useful. But as Psykers in DH don't get discipline powers until rank 3 or so, it's kinda necessary that they be.
 
But I think perhaps a minor power resulting on -30 to all attacks is a bit much. Perhaps distort vision needs further nerfing. -10 or -20 perhaps. 
And Precog Dodge could use a boots, and I don't see why it shouldn't help against melee opponents.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#15 Humanas

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:49 AM

As far as defensive minor powers go, there is chameleon and precognition plus distort vision. I find the other two to be very effective by themeselves so maybe distort vision needs to go or become a discipline power ?



#16 PnPgamer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

Darth Smeg said:

 

PnPgamer said:

 

two words:

they stack.

 

 

You can only focus one power each round, and as neither are sustainable, they cannot stack.

 

 

weren't that only on the case of attacks/attack type of powers?

Also precognitive dodge can be useful when trying to get into discipline mastery (which also reduces its power threshold into 6, but doesn't matter at that point anymore) as you need every power in core book to achieve that. Also, precognitive dodge is undisableable. And instead of a ***** that hides beyond mundane sight, you do cool matrix moves.



#17 PnPgamer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

Humanas said:

As far as defensive minor powers go, there is chameleon and precognition plus distort vision. I find the other two to be very effective by themeselves so maybe distort vision needs to go or become a discipline power ?

you wanna make distort vision more cheaper when a discipline mastery is done?



#18 Darth Smeg

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

PnPgamer said:

 

 

weren't that only on the case of attacks/attack type of powers?

 

 

No, that only became RAW with Black Crusade. Post-errata DH is very strict: Not only can you only manifest one power pr round (with the ONLY exception being Resist Posession), but making such a manifestation also counts as an Attack action.

Personally I prefer the BC rulings where you can only make one action with each subtype pr round, and various psychic powers have different subtypes. 

But according to DH RAW, no.


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You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#19 PnPgamer

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:53 AM

you could stack them onto your own turn: There other was until end of your next turn, right? the other until start of your next turn? If a situation rises when you know that you'll be encountered a huge hail of bullets etc, you can first activate the one that stops at the end of next turn, and during that next turn, you activate the other one, thus having both applied. This is of course majorly the case of enemy readying their action for your entrance or something.

#20 Darth Smeg

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:30 AM

Well, that won't really help, as the one that ends after your next turn will do just that: End after your turn, before the enemies shoot back.

The only situation in which this stacking would help, is of you run into Overwatch which means you get shot at on your own turn. But this seems very situational, and not worth spending 200XP for methinks.


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games





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