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#1 mwodom

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:23 AM

 Is there a limit on how much extra starting obligation a character can take, beyond being reasonable about it?



#2 LethalDose

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

mwodom said:

 Is there a limit on how much extra starting obligation a character can take, beyond being reasonable about it?

+20 is max in the current raw.  At maximum, a player may take:

  • +10 obligation at creation for +10 XP
  • +10 obligation at creation for +2500 creds

This is made explicit on page 30 (second to last paragraph on the page):

"There are two limitations to [gaining additional obligation]; each option can only be selected once…"

So when players on here are complaining that their +30 obligation player is getting shafted, it's their fault for breaking the rules, and the GM's fault for allowing them to break the rules.

-WJL

 


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#3 LethalDose

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:24 AM

My bad, the post I was thinking of was referring to total obligation, instead of additional obligation.

Still, its their own fault for taking all that obligation.

-WJL


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#4 mwodom

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:31 PM

Thanks, I have been without my book for a week-and-a-half and could not remember. 



#5 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

mwodom said:

 Is there a limit on how much extra starting obligation a character can take, beyond being reasonable about it?

Page 29, under "Player Starting Obligation Values", end of the second paragraph:

"There are two limitations to this; each option can only be selected once, and player characters cannot gain more additional Obligation than their original starting value."

So in a party of five characters, nobody could take more than 10 points of additional Obligation for a starting maximum of 20.  That cap is probably there to curb would-be powergamers from piling on the Obligation to start with loads of extra credits and bonus XP.


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#6 awayputurwpn

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

 Yeah, the point that no player may take more extra obligation than their original starting value is often overlooked for some reason.

i will say, though, that it doesn't make much sense. Why allow a PC in a 6-player game only 5 extra obligation max, while a PC in a 3-player game can add on 15 extra obligation? Power gaming doesn't really come into play here, does it?



#7 3WhiteFox3

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

awayputurwpn said:

 Yeah, the point that no player may take more extra obligation than their original starting value is often overlooked for some reason.

i will say, though, that it doesn't make much sense. Why allow a PC in a 6-player game only 5 extra obligation max, while a PC in a 3-player game can add on 15 extra obligation? Power gaming doesn't really come into play here, does it?

I want to agree, but there is a very good reason to keep it capped at such a low value, it's so that you can't have all of those 6 PCs taking 15 extra obligation and giving the entire party 120 Obligation, which would be harsh to start out with.



#8 Cyril

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

3WhiteFox3 said:

awayputurwpn said:

 

 Yeah, the point that no player may take more extra obligation than their original starting value is often overlooked for some reason.

i will say, though, that it doesn't make much sense. Why allow a PC in a 6-player game only 5 extra obligation max, while a PC in a 3-player game can add on 15 extra obligation? Power gaming doesn't really come into play here, does it?

 

I want to agree, but there is a very good reason to keep it capped at such a low value, it's so that you can't have all of those 6 PCs taking 15 extra obligation and giving the entire party 120 Obligation, which would be harsh to start out with.

 

Exactly. Remember that if the group's total obligation is ever more than 100, they cannot gain experience. 

That's the main reason to cap it at such a small level of increase for so many characters in the party. 



#9 Sirkamina

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:17 AM

On the question of obligation, how do you reduce it?

 

I only got into the game a few weeks ago and do not have a book, and at this point they are a tad difficult to come by.

My character started with 20 obligation like most of our party (base 10) This character had it split into 2 parts,

10 pts Debt (to pay off his freedom, as he is a droid and someone had to "buy" him for him to exist)

10 pts obsession: Cleptomania (this one is just really fun to play)

 

Now due to the second obligation, the character got  a reasonable amount of wealth in the first session (about 2k whereas the rest of the party got almost nothing) I then tried to "pay off" some of the debt obligation to keep the hutts at bay (my obligation was not rolled, i just wanted to start paying before I lost the money somehow)

My question is this: how is obligation reduced?

I know that debt can theoretically be paid off, and we ruled that since 10 obligation can give 2500 credits, that 5000 credits would be an appropriate value for the debt to be paid. (my character was able to reduce his debt obligation to 6 through this by paying 2k)

But how about other obligations?

The obsession:cleptomania was supposed to be dealing with the consequences of my characters cleptomania if it ever came up. My concern is how to reduce this. Can this be done Via EXP or only through role playing?

Are there any real rules on reducing obligation?

 



#10 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:26 AM

Sirkamina said:

On the question of obligation, how do you reduce it?

Are there any real rules on reducing obligation? 

Short answer is "not really."

It's largely left up to the GM to determine how and when Obligation can be reduced, which seems to be one of the root issues with the problems folks such as yourself are having with the Obligation mechanic (alongside with GMs not really sure on how to use it in a story).

While things like Debt, Favor, and even Bounty are fairly straight-forward in how to reduce them, the others (Addiction, Family, Oathbound, Obsession)… not so much.  Although for Addiction or Obsession, perhaps reducing that Obligation might represent overcoming that particularly habit, while Oathbound might be a case of gradually fulfilling that oath, or doing something really major that "cleans the slate" between your character and the object of that oath.


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#11 Sirkamina

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:48 AM

Thanks, Hopefully this will be clarified in the final book.

Although I dont think I want to reduce the cleptomania, it is far too fun

 



#12 3WhiteFox3

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:12 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

 

Sirkamina said:

 

On the question of obligation, how do you reduce it?

Are there any real rules on reducing obligation? 

 

 

Short answer is "not really."

It's largely left up to the GM to determine how and when Obligation can be reduced, which seems to be one of the root issues with the problems folks such as yourself are having with the Obligation mechanic (alongside with GMs not really sure on how to use it in a story).

While things like Debt, Favor, and even Bounty are fairly straight-forward in how to reduce them, the others (Addiction, Family, Oathbound, Obsession)… not so much.  Although for Addiction or Obsession, perhaps reducing that Obligation might represent overcoming that particularly habit, while Oathbound might be a case of gradually fulfilling that oath, or doing something really major that "cleans the slate" between your character and the object of that oath.

 

Another thing that confuses the issue is the following sentence from the Negotiate skill description.

 

"Characters need to effectively Negotiate if they ever hope to pay down their Obligations."

This makes sense for some things, but not every Obligation is based upon money, goods or services. How does one Negotiate with a duty to his family, or his obsession with ancient artifacts?



#13 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

3WhiteFox3 said:

Another thing that confuses the issue is the following sentence from the Negotiate skill description. 

"Characters need to effectively Negotiate if they ever hope to pay down their Obligations."

This makes sense for some things, but not every Obligation is based upon money, goods or services. How does one Negotiate with a duty to his family, or his obsession with ancient artifacts?

Internal monologue?

Maybe reducing that Family Obligation consists of ensuring the PC's family is safely out of harm's way and thus can't be used as leverage against the PC in the future?


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#14 Rikoshi

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:28 AM

Cyril said:

 

 

 

Exactly. Remember that if the group's total obligation is ever more than 100, they cannot gain experience. 

That's the main reason to cap it at such a small level of increase for so many characters in the party. 

They can gain experience; they just can't spend it.



#15 GM Chris

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:51 AM

Rikoshi said:

They can gain experience; they just can't spend it.

My take on Luke Skywalker:  spent his entire adolescence with massive, massive, massive obligation.  His obligation?  Family.  He got a lot for taking all that obligation (how many scraggly moisture farmers had a pad as nice as the Lars', complete with droid bays and hot oils baths, plenty of food and water, a land speeder, weapons, and all the other nice things…?).  He also got "safety". 

I think he had so much Obligation to his family that he was at the cap.    Just kept rackin' up that XP with no way to spend it.

 

Then some droids come along.  And his family suddenly sleeps with the gooberfishes.  (And he underwent an adventure to make that happen, too!  He even got dropped in combat!)  But… as strange as it is… his decision to follow the story and seek out a droid and old Ben meant his parents could get barbequed whilst he was away.  Obligation - REDUCED!  Now he's got this phat pool of XP… ready to immediatly dump into Pilot and Force Sensitive Exile!!!

 

At least… that's my take. 


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#16 Cyril

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

Rikoshi said:

Cyril said:

 

 

 

 

Exactly. Remember that if the group's total obligation is ever more than 100, they cannot gain experience. 

That's the main reason to cap it at such a small level of increase for so many characters in the party. 

 

 

They can gain experience; they just can't spend it.

Good catch. Thanks for the correction. 



#17 Sirkamina

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

despite our group having an obligation score in the upper 70s, we have yet to roll poorly on our obligation roll.(only played 2 sessions thus far) Just to clarify, what is the penalty for it coming up, I have heard it said that XP cant be spent, However XP cant normally be spent until between sessions anyway unless there is downtime in the story which there rarley is. IS this XP spending restriction for the whole session, or just iuntil the circumstances are resolved( such as paying some of your debt or dodging the bounty hunters chasing you or just killing them outright).  To me there doesnt seem to be a real penalty other than something happens that adds the offending obligation to the current storyline as a plot point.



#18 Kallabecca

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:20 AM

Sirkamina said:

despite our group having an obligation score in the upper 70s, we have yet to roll poorly on our obligation roll.(only played 2 sessions thus far) Just to clarify, what is the penalty for it coming up, I have heard it said that XP cant be spent, However XP cant normally be spent until between sessions anyway unless there is downtime in the story which there rarley is. IS this XP spending restriction for the whole session, or just iuntil the circumstances are resolved( such as paying some of your debt or dodging the bounty hunters chasing you or just killing them outright).  To me there doesnt seem to be a real penalty other than something happens that adds the offending obligation to the current storyline as a plot point.

You can't spend XP if the total party obligation rises above 100. Since your party is at 70, even if someone's obligation does come up in that week's adventure, they can still gain and spend XP normally. The negative of obligation coming up is something complicates the adventure (bounty hunters show up to get their guy, loan shark shows up to collect on the debt, family calls with some problem that needs to be dealt with, etc…).



#19 borithan

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:30 AM

awayputurwpn said:

 Yeah, the point that no player may take more extra obligation than their original starting value is often overlooked for some reason.

i will say, though, that it doesn't make much sense. Why allow a PC in a 6-player game only 5 extra obligation max, while a PC in a 3-player game can add on 15 extra obligation? Power gaming doesn't really come into play here, does it?

Well, as said, to stop total Obligation getting to silly levels, and also as there are more players the more the party will cover more roles and so probably need less extra xp and the like before hand: So a large party would be made up of a group of specialists, while a smaller party is made up of more generalist characters. The more generalist characters will need more xp to make their characters.



#20 Cyril

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:46 AM

Kallabecca said:

Sirkamina said:

 

despite our group having an obligation score in the upper 70s, we have yet to roll poorly on our obligation roll.(only played 2 sessions thus far) Just to clarify, what is the penalty for it coming up, I have heard it said that XP cant be spent, However XP cant normally be spent until between sessions anyway unless there is downtime in the story which there rarley is. IS this XP spending restriction for the whole session, or just iuntil the circumstances are resolved( such as paying some of your debt or dodging the bounty hunters chasing you or just killing them outright).  To me there doesnt seem to be a real penalty other than something happens that adds the offending obligation to the current storyline as a plot point.

 

You can't spend XP if the total party obligation rises above 100. Since your party is at 70, even if someone's obligation does come up in that week's adventure, they can still gain and spend XP normally. The negative of obligation coming up is something complicates the adventure (bounty hunters show up to get their guy, loan shark shows up to collect on the debt, family calls with some problem that needs to be dealt with, etc…).

 

Don't forget that if Obligation comes up, every character lowers their Strain Threshold by 1 for the encounter. The character who's obligation was rolled lowers it by 2. 

If you roll doubles, the strain threshold penalty doubles. 






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