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Unnatural Toughness and Daemonic


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#1 The Laughing God

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

Daemonhosts have according to the rules Unnatural Toughness x2 or x3

but they also have the Daemonic Trait which doubles their T to resist non-holy Damage

do these two effects stack? are we talking Toughness bonuses of around 20 here?


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#2 funkwit81

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:51 AM

The Laughing God said:

Daemonhosts have according to the rules Unnatural Toughness x2 or x3

but they also have the Daemonic Trait which doubles their T to resist non-holy Damage

do these two effects stack? are we talking Toughness bonuses of around 20 here?

 

Greeting LTG. I read it that they stack personally leading to some fairly high toughness bonuses but any acolytes that don't have the odd holy weapon*, or double strike/shot is doing something wrong ;-)

Your Haarlock thread is great by the way, thank you :-)

 

SEMI - SPOILER FOR TATTERED FATES BELOW

 

 

 

 

 

*I was amazed that my group, currently approaching the finale of Tattered Fates, knew they were going to be facing some nasty daemonic foes and didn't go to speak to Obadiah Psalter, the cleric displaced by the Pilgrms, to get a weapon each blessed then they had the gall to try and blame me for not telling them it was an option. sigh.



#3 Droma

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:36 AM

funkwit81 said:

*I was amazed that my group, currently approaching the finale of Tattered Fates, knew they were going to be facing some nasty daemonic foes and didn't go to speak to Obadiah Psalter, the cleric displaced by the Pilgrms, to get a weapon each blessed then they had the gall to try and blame me for not telling them it was an option. sigh.

 

That's because they have 0 reason to believe he's capable of doing it. The adventure certainly doesn't state he's able to and represents him as a well meaning bumbling idiot.

Also according to the Inquisitors Handbook a blessed weapon/ammo can only be obtained through the Holy Ordor's or high ranking members of the church(which Obadiah is not). Not to mention requires both specific prayers and alchemical materials. On top of that it's listed as very rare and not exactly cheap.

So yes your players were perfectly correct in blaming you because it flat out should not have been an option. So get off your high horse.

Edit: @OP Deamonhosts have unnatural strength not toughness. So there is nothing to worry about. Most deamonhosts will have between 8-12 toughness bonus.



#4 funkwit81

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:42 AM

Droma said:

funkwit81 said:

*I was amazed that my group, currently approaching the finale of Tattered Fates, knew they were going to be facing some nasty daemonic foes and didn't go to speak to Obadiah Psalter, the cleric displaced by the Pilgrms, to get a weapon each blessed then they had the gall to try and blame me for not telling them it was an option. sigh.

 

That's because they have 0 reason to believe he's capable of doing it. The adventure certainly doesn't state he's able to and represents him as a well meaning bumbling idiot.

Also according to the Inquisitors Handbook a blessed weapon/ammo can only be obtained through the Holy Ordor's or high ranking members of the church(which Obadiah is not). Not to mention requires both specific prayers and alchemical materials. On top of that it's listed as very rare and not exactly cheap.

So yes your players were perfectly correct in blaming you because it flat out should not have been an option. So get off your high horse.

Edit: @OP Deamonhosts have unnatural strength not toughness. So there is nothing to worry about. Most deamonhosts will have between 8-12 toughness bonus.

 

nice set of assumptions there presuming i ran the adventure exactly as it was written in the book* so take your own advice and try dismounting from your lofty mount before going on the attack.

In mine Psalter was a resolute holy man acting as a bulwark against the sin and iniquity of Quaddis. During the battle to retake his chapel he displayed the ability to harm daemons with his presence and once it was over he offered help to the group because he sensed the spirit of the emperor watching over them. They promptly went off to earn some cash in the fighting pits and never mentioned him, in character again.

If they'd contacted him he would have informed them he could provide aid and blessings before they confronted the evil festering in Xicarph if they acquired certain reagents for him to channel the might of the emperor through their weapons and so cast those who prey upon His wayward people back into the darkness.

*I'd like to know though where in the text you got that he was a wellmeaning but bumbling idiot as he's described as "an agitator, rabble-rouser and devout puritan" who ended up in Xicarph due to a ship master deciding to go there and he, Psalter, stayed to combat the corruption evidence on the planet but lost his congregation to the Beloved who he tried to resist. I know such things are down to interpretation but I'd love to know where you got bumbling and idiot from in the one paragraph describing him in TF.

You are of course correct that, as written, daemonhosts don't get Unnatural Toughness thoguh there's nothing to stop a GM deciding his daemonhost has the aforementioned trait. Also some Daemons get both Daemoinc and Unnatural Toughness according to Daemon Hunters though the daemon in question are of herald rank or higher so it's something that may crop up at some point. I just assumed, there's that word again , that they stack and they do so in my game.



#5 Saldre

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:30 AM

Daemon-hosts can get Unnatural toughness if they roll up the result on the table- Bloated or Corpulent form, I believe? Something like that. But its true that, as a GM, I can easily see myself giving it to a Daemonhost- they are described as being horrendously resistant in Einsenhorn. 

In other news- Daemon Hunter points out that these things, though described to stack in Disciples of the Dark Gods, actually don't stack and simply add a +1 to it, using the new games' models. 

But personally- I still stack them. Without a holy weapon, beating daemons WITH unnatural toughness should be virtually impossible without HEAVY weapons. 

And I mean at least 2d10+X wepaons. 



#6 Adeptus-B

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:20 AM

The Laughing God said:

 

Daemonhosts have according to the rules Unnatural Toughness x2 or x3

but they also have the Daemonic Trait which doubles their T to resist non-holy Damage

do these two effects stack? are we talking Toughness bonuses of around 20 here?

 

 

DH uses the D&D3E standard of counting two 'doublings' as triple; so, a daemonhost with Unnatural Toughness x2 and Daemonic has an effective Toughness Bonus of x3. In which case, Holy weapons would only negate the Deamonic bonus, leaving the deamonhost with TBx2 (presumably from being immune to pain or something).



#7 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

I subscribe to the same interpretation os Adeptus-B.



#8 The Laughing God

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

Droma said:


Edit: @OP Deamonhosts have unnatural strength not toughness. So there is nothing to worry about. Most deamonhosts will have between 8-12 toughness bonus.

They have standard unnatural toughness too, either x2 or x3, depending on how many times they are bound, as per the rules in the core book.


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#9 Droma

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:37 AM

Unless that was errated I'd like you to quote me a page number because the core book is where I pulled the info in your quote of me.

Edit: Page 357, stage six: Skills, Talents and Traits

Traits: Daemonic, Dark Sight, Fear 4, Flyer (AB), From Beyond, Natural Weapon (Claws Fangs), Unbound and once-bound Daemonhosts have Unnatural Strength (x3), and twice and thrice-bound have Unnatural Strength (x2).

 Also none of the rolled options for stage 3 give unnatural toughness. One of them gives it an extra 1d10 toughness.



#10 The Laughing God

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:20 AM

sorry I read it wrong, confused it with Unnatural Strength :)


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