Jump to content



Photo

Imperial Navy squadron question


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,146 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:16 PM

Does the commander of an Imperial Navy squadron (Admirals or Commodores for capital ships, Commodores or Captains for escorts) directly command the flagship, or does this vessel have its own Captain (if a capital ship) or Commander (if an escort) in addition to the overall squadron commander? I know that this might vary based on circumstance, but what is most typical?


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#2 Alasseo

Alasseo

    Member

  • Members
  • 799 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

 An admiral would have a flag captain  to command the ship he is on, while he commands the fleet/squadron (if it's a squadron, evidence says most likely BC/GC and up) as a whole, commodores tend to be a temporary rank and title granted to the senior captain of a squadron/task force. The squadron sent to relieve/evacuate Belatis during the Gothic War, for example, was commanded by Flag-Captain Erwin Ramas, IN of His Divine Majesty's Ship Drachenfels. Captain Ramas wasn't granted a commodore's rank for the operation, and he remained in command of Drachenfels while exercising command of the evacuation flotilla as a whole.

Later in the war, Flag-Captain Leoten Semper of HDMS Lord Solar Macharius was appointed Commodore and given command of the same squadron (Macharius, Drachenfels, Scipio, Tonnent and Graf Orlok; all cruisers, plus their supporting escort squadron(s)), temporarily replacing Flag-Captain Ramas as most senior officer (and hence, officer commanding). Commodore Semper retained personal command of the Macharius in addition to his commodoreship from a comparatively insignificant Ork hunt in the Cyclops cluster in 147/148.m41 right up until the Battle of Gethsemane (151.m41).

The Battle of Gethsemane was commanded by Lord Admiral Cornelius Ravensburg (OHI, GS, KCM, BH, STerra, SCM, ER, MC, IN) aboard the battleship Divine Right. HDMS Divine Right was itself under the command of Flag-Captain Augustus Ortelius (OHI, GS, BH, SCM, MC, IN).


There is no right, and no wrong, but having the bigger stick makes it so...


#3 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,146 posts

Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:00 PM

 what do all of those two and three letter references in parenthesis mean?


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#4 venkelos

venkelos

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,269 posts

Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:56 AM

i think we can say, for the most part, that an Admiral or Commodore would be a guest aboard the flagship, and could order it, like any other ship in the unit under their command, but the ship's regular Captain would administer it, much of the time.

An example, in a game of Star Trek RPG I plan to run someday, the Federation, and indeed the Alpha Quadrant, are assaulted by an outside aggressor (it's the Nieztchiens from Andromeda, for a fun crossover), and the Federation Battleforce is put under command of Admiral Picard (he gets field-promoted to Rear Admiral, so he can oversee the fleet, and it allows one of my players to be the Captain, without having to play Picard, or explain his absence.) Picard would spend much of his time in the ready room, receiving data from numerous vessels across the Federation, and form tactical briefings, while the acting Captain would see to the Enterprise-E. If the need arose, Picard COULD pull rank, but much of his attention would need to be devoted to all of the other ships. Afterward, he might forfeit the field promotion, and return to the Conn, as Captain, but that's not important. So, as with this example, I would presume that the Admiral would be aboard, but not involved with the "day-to-day" operations of the vessel, even formally his own vessel, in favor of coordinating the whole fleet.

Of course, I don't know. I'm not an admiral, and my military knowledge is not exactly History Channel show guest specialist-caliber.



#5 Emperor Castaigne

Emperor Castaigne

    Member

  • Members
  • 58 posts

Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

HappyDaze said:

what do all of those two and three letter references in parenthesis mean?

I believe they are military commendations, but I only recognize a couple of them like Obscuras Honorifica Imperialis (OHI) and Star of Terra (STerra), I don't know what the other ones are. MC could be either the Macharian Cross (awarded for successful and intelligent application of the Tactica Imperialis) or the Medallion Crimson (doing ones duty even when mortally injured, often rewarded posthumously), or possibly even some third one I'm not familiar with.



#6 Alasseo

Alasseo

    Member

  • Members
  • 799 posts

Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

HappyDaze said:

 what do all of those two and three letter references in parenthesis mean?

OHI = Obscuras Honorifica Imperialis

GS = Order of the Gothic Star

KCM = Order of the Knights of Cypra Mundi

BH = Bronze Halo

STerra = Seal of Terra

SCM = Seal of Cypra Mundi

ER = Ebon Ring

MC = Medallion Crimson

IN = Imperial Navy

 

For reference, the Macharian Cross would likely be something like CMach.

This is all my own inferences based on the British system of honours, given the aesthetic most of the Imperial Navy goes for, although I believe IN is attested in canon somewhere.


There is no right, and no wrong, but having the bigger stick makes it so...


#7 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,146 posts

Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:55 AM

venkelos said:

i think we can say, for the most part, that an Admiral or Commodore would be a guest aboard the flagship, and could order it, like any other ship in the unit under their command, but the ship's regular Captain would administer it, much of the time.

An example, in a game of Star Trek RPG I plan to run someday, the Federation, and indeed the Alpha Quadrant, are assaulted by an outside aggressor (it's the Nieztchiens from Andromeda, for a fun crossover), and the Federation Battleforce is put under command of Admiral Picard (he gets field-promoted to Rear Admiral, so he can oversee the fleet, and it allows one of my players to be the Captain, without having to play Picard, or explain his absence.) Picard would spend much of his time in the ready room, receiving data from numerous vessels across the Federation, and form tactical briefings, while the acting Captain would see to the Enterprise-E. If the need arose, Picard COULD pull rank, but much of his attention would need to be devoted to all of the other ships. Afterward, he might forfeit the field promotion, and return to the Conn, as Captain, but that's not important. So, as with this example, I would presume that the Admiral would be aboard, but not involved with the "day-to-day" operations of the vessel, even formally his own vessel, in favor of coordinating the whole fleet.

Of course, I don't know. I'm not an admiral, and my military knowledge is not exactly History Channel show guest specialist-caliber.

 

So would that apply to a captain commanding an escort squadron too? Would he directy command one of the escorts (replacing the commander usually in command of an escort) or would his personal flagship still have it's own commanding officer under him?


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#8 Alasseo

Alasseo

    Member

  • Members
  • 799 posts

Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

 An escort squadron would be commanded by the senior officer of the squadron (who may be a Commander, or may conceivably hold the rank of Captain, though not Flag-Captain/Lord-Captain). That's not quite a tautology (as the most senior/highest ranking officer will always be in command); the senior captain of the squadron will serve as the squadron's commanding officer as well as captain of his own vessel, while his executive officer will take on more of the task of running the ship.
This would particularly be the case in an ad-hoc squadron (something which is most likely with capital vessels, least likely with destroyers and somewhere in between with frigates), but even a standing squadron would not necessarily rate a flag officer and his staff.

If it's a Captain being posted to act as Squadron CO (this applies to actual flag officers like permanent Commodores and Admirals as well), then he'd most likely take over the existing captain's quarters (if the ship didn't have Admiral's Quarters), but be considered a flag officer en petit: socially he'd displace the vessel's CO, but the CO would stay on in his current rank and position under him. The Squadron CO would then be technically a passenger on the ship, and as such under the orders of the ship's CO, but one empowered to give orders to the squadron's elements (including the ship he was aboard… it's an uncomfortable situation, for both officers). Bottom line- in charge of the squadron, can direct the ship's captain how to fight his ship as part of the squadron, but the ship's captain issues the orders concerning his ship.


There is no right, and no wrong, but having the bigger stick makes it so...


#9 lurkeroutthere

lurkeroutthere

    Member

  • Members
  • 234 posts

Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

I would presume some of it depends on the size of the squadrons involved and sizes of the ships involved. A squadraon of wolpack raiders after all has no supporting vessels just their own vessels to worry about. Most senior vessels captain (who will also typically be in the best ship) takes charge and is mostly responsible for calling targets of priority and leading formations.

 

Bigger groups of ships though you have bigger problems and it becomes more of a full time responsibility, especially during major combat engagements where both the ship captain and the overall fleet commander have entirely too much on their plate to be doing anything else.



#10 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,146 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

Alasseo said:

 An escort squadron would be commanded by the senior officer of the squadron (who may be a Commander, or may conceivably hold the rank of Captain, though not Flag-Captain/Lord-Captain).

I was going by Battlefleet Koronus where it is stated that an escort squadron is commanded by either a Captain or a Commodore. It seems reasonable that a Lord-Captain could command an escort squadron on detached duty (such as a Long Patrol formation).

Also, would it be reasonable to assume that a Captain in charge of an escort squadron is still considered inferior to a Captain commanding a capital ship regardless of seniority? It would seem rather odd for the head of an escort squadron to be calling the shots for the cruiser(s) that they escort.

 


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS