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Quick feedback on first couple of games (Crypsis, cards installed on roots)


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#1 charmer

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

Hi,

I had a chance to play with the Netrunner core set for the first time yesterday. As advised, we started with Jinteki vz Shaper with all neutral cards shuffled in.

Here come a few of my first impressions and/or question:

 

1) It soon became apprent that Crypsis is the ultimate weapon against Jinteki unless we played it wrong. Coupled with Magnus Opus or The Toolbox, the corp had absolutely no chance to get rid of this icebreaker. We found that other than purging all virus counter and losing the all ticks, no cards in the non-influenced Jinteki deck could deal with it once it got spinning. So, if I get it right, the strength upgrades on Crypsis are permanent, right?

We then discovered that HB actually can trash programs with some of their ice so we played another game with HB vs Anarch.

2) Wording on using hosted counters seems to be counterintuitive. For example, on Datasucker, why does the card say "Hosted virus counter: <effect>" rather than "Remove a hosted virus counter: <effect>" ?

3) Rules on Archived Memories (AM) seems to be confusing. It says "1 card" but if I understand the rules correctly, nothing but an Upgrade can be "attached" or installed on HQ, right? If so, why isn't the wording just Ädd 1 Upgrade from Archive to HQ".  Also, I found it in the rules that ice is not installed _in front_ of server, not _on_ them so would ice cards also qualify as a target for AM?

4) Similar issue with Demolition Run - if  I run the HQ, can I access and possibly trash anything other than Upgrades?

 



#2 Ser Folly

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:24 AM

I'm afraid there are a number of rule interpretation errors here:

 

charmer said:

1) It soon became apprent that Crypsis is the ultimate weapon against Jinteki unless we played it wrong. Coupled with Magnus Opus or The Toolbox, the corp had absolutely no chance to get rid of this icebreaker. We found that other than purging all virus counter and losing the all ticks, no cards in the non-influenced Jinteki deck could deal with it once it got spinning. So, if I get it right, the strength upgrades on Crypsis are permanent, right?

We then discovered that HB actually can trash programs with some of their ice so we played another game with HB vs Anarch.

2) Wording on using hosted counters seems to be counterintuitive. For example, on Datasucker, why does the card say "Hosted virus counter: <effect>" rather than "Remove a hosted virus counter: <effect>" ?

3) Rules on Archived Memories (AM) seems to be confusing. It says "1 card" but if I understand the rules correctly, nothing but an Upgrade can be "attached" or installed on HQ, right? If so, why isn't the wording just Ädd 1 Upgrade from Archive to HQ".  Also, I found it in the rules that ice is not installed _in front_ of server, not _on_ them so would ice cards also qualify as a target for AM?

4) Similar issue with Demolition Run - if  I run the HQ, can I access and possibly trash anything other than Upgrades?

 

1. Crypsis is strength zero and thus is quite expensive to pump to a decent strength and this has to be done with any individual ICE on any individual run. Additionally you have to load it with virus counters (one counter costing one click) and these counters are one after another removed after encountering one piece of ICE. So on a run against 3 pieces of ICE you would have to pay for raising Crypsis' strength three times AND pay for the demolition of subroutines AND remove three virus counters or trash the program. But then…it works against all types of ICE.

2.It seems a bit strange but you get used to it and it' s shorter (and explicitly explained as (cost: effect) in the rules. Cost being something you have to spend: cred click, counter etc.

3. The problem here is, that HQ is not your identity card (this card just represents HQ). HQ is your hand and you can add a card to HQ meaning you search for the one you need and put it in your hand. Note: Archived memory says 'put it in HQ' and not 'install it in the root of HQ' or 'install it in HQ.

4. Similar answer like the one to 3. you access cards from the corps hand.

 

Are you German? I was wondering about the Ä…

 

 


Descent - Star Wars LCG - Netrunner - X-Wing - Arkham Horror - Elder Sign - Battlestar Galactica - Warhammer: Diskwars - Kingsburg - Edge of the Empire - Civilization - Bloodbowl Teammanager - Lord of the Rings LCG ... looks like I love FFG stuff :huh:


#3 charmer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

more questions:

 

5) I couldn't find it in the rules - if credits, which are recurrently generated by a card, are not spent in the same turn, do they cumulate over subsequent turns? E.g. on Cyberfeeder.

 

6) If a runner accesses my asset and decides not to trash it, am I stuck with it on that server until I play a card that specifically instructs me to trash a card in play?



#4 charmer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:07 PM

Ser Folly said:

I'm afraid there are a number of rule interpretation errors here:

 

charmer said:

 

1) It soon became apprent that Crypsis is the ultimate weapon against Jinteki unless we played it wrong. Coupled with Magnus Opus or The Toolbox, the corp had absolutely no chance to get rid of this icebreaker. We found that other than purging all virus counter and losing the all ticks, no cards in the non-influenced Jinteki deck could deal with it once it got spinning. So, if I get it right, the strength upgrades on Crypsis are permanent, right?

We then discovered that HB actually can trash programs with some of their ice so we played another game with HB vs Anarch.

2) Wording on using hosted counters seems to be counterintuitive. For example, on Datasucker, why does the card say "Hosted virus counter: <effect>" rather than "Remove a hosted virus counter: <effect>" ?

3) Rules on Archived Memories (AM) seems to be confusing. It says "1 card" but if I understand the rules correctly, nothing but an Upgrade can be "attached" or installed on HQ, right? If so, why isn't the wording just Ädd 1 Upgrade from Archive to HQ".  Also, I found it in the rules that ice is not installed _in front_ of server, not _on_ them so would ice cards also qualify as a target for AM?

4) Similar issue with Demolition Run - if  I run the HQ, can I access and possibly trash anything other than Upgrades?

 

 

 

1. Crypsis is strength zero and thus is quite expensive to pump to a decent strength and this has to be done with any individual ICE on any individual run. Additionally you have to load it with virus counters (one counter costing one click) and these counters are one after another removed after encountering one piece of ICE. So on a run against 3 pieces of ICE you would have to pay for raising Crypsis' strength three times AND pay for the demolition of subroutines AND remove three virus counters or trash the program. But then…it works against all types of ICE.

2.It seems a bit strange but you get used to it and it' s shorter (and explicitly explained as (cost: effect) in the rules. Cost being something you have to spend: cred click, counter etc.

3. The problem here is, that HQ is not your identity card (this card just represents HQ). HQ is your hand and you can add a card to HQ meaning you search for the one you need and put it in your hand. Note: Archived memory says 'put it in HQ' and not 'install it in the root of HQ' or 'install it in HQ.

4. Similar answer like the one to 3. you access cards from the corps hand.

 

Are you German? I was wondering about the Ä…

Ad 1) We kind of thought that Crypsis can't be that broken but explain this: on all Shaper icebrakers the rules say  "+1 strength for the remainder of this run." but on Crypsis and other runer faction icebreakers it's just "+1 strength". So it seems all such "cost: effect" apply only on individual instances at a time (i.e. no permanent upgrades to strength) but it sure confused the hell out of us…

ad 2) ok

ad 3) Well, that's kind of a problem naming same things different names even if the game is assymetrical…  Ok , is makes much more sense now.

ad 4) Does it then mean that I can "discard" the whole Corp's hand  if I successfully access it withthe Demolition Run?

 

I'm not German Ä should have been  ' "A ' but due to a strange input method on Windows which I don't ususally use, I didn't notice the typo.

Thanks for your help.



#5 Malgamus

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:07 PM

charmer said:

 

more questions:

 

5) I couldn't find it in the rules - if credits, which are recurrently generated by a card, are not spent in the same turn, do they cumulate over subsequent turns? E.g. on Cyberfeeder.

 

6) If a runner accesses my asset and decides not to trash it, am I stuck with it on that server until I play a card that specifically instructs me to trash a card in play?

 

 

4) No demolition run let's you trash any cards you do access such as ICE or Operations which can't normally be trashed. You would still only access 1 random card from their HQ(hand).

 

5) No, recurring credits don't accumulate.

 

6)You can trash an asset or agenda installed on a server by installing a new one in that server. As a side note, the card would be put in the Archives face down of it wasn't rezzed.



#6 ChaosChild

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:50 AM

With regard to the strength bonuses on Crypsis and other icebreakers, check p16 of the rulebook (under the heading "Increasing an icebreaker's strength").

This strength increase lasts only while the current piece of ice is being encountered, unless otherwise noted by card abilities.

 



#7 charmer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:06 AM

Thank you all for your feedback.

Even though I read the whole rulebook before playing, once in the game, it was not so easy (for us, anyway) to put all the pieces together correctly.

As I come from Magic, where rules and game terms have been continuously revisited and updated for clarity, I found the terminology of Netrunner needlessly convoluted. For example, I don't see any reason why your hand of cards should be called "grip" or "HQ" other than making it sound fancy and create an illusion that it is actually something else compared to other games…

Other than that, I like the overall setup, the mechanics, and also the "influence" system for splashing cards from different factions.

Now, understanding the rules a little better, maybe a corporation will actually be able to win something in our games :)



#8 Malgamus

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:51 AM

 Why is your deck called your library and your discard pile the graveyard in Magic? It's the same reason, terms help add to the theme and atmosphere of the game. It just takes some people more time to adjust to the new words especially if they are used to calling them something else.



#9 radiskull

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:12 AM

 I personally like that the runner's and the Corp's play areas are called different things.  If a card refers to a "stack", you KNOW it's talking about the runner's undrawn cards.  There's no possibility for confusion.  If a card referred to a "discard pile", then you wouldn't know if it was talking to the Corp or the Runner.  But all of these cards will use either "heap" or "Archives", and thus precision is attained.



#10 TheRedArmy

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

"Why is your deck called your library and your discard pile the graveyard in Magic? It's the same reason, terms help add to the theme and atmosphere of the game. It just takes some people more time to adjust to the new words especially if they are used to calling them something else."

 

+1 to this.

 

I also come from MTG and it also took a little while to get used to the words, but I like the distinction, both for the ceratinty in what it's referring to, and for the increased immersion into the fictional world. That's one thing Magic never really got going for me - I always felt like I was playing a game, not being a wizard slinging around spells to kill off my enemy - in Netrunner, I actually feel like a giant, slow corporation struggling to hold back the elusive runner.






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