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Woe to Chum and Cell Portal


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#1 AussieKSU

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

Without additional text in the subroutine stating that "the runner may not jack out for the remainder of the run", I find both pieces of ice pretty weak.

I do understand the utility of cell portal late, late game, with atleast 3 pieces of IC on a server, but this means that cell portal must be set as the IC closestto the root as possible. Furthermore, if you plan on "surprising" the runner with a cell portal, and they are indeed caught very unprepared, they can always just jack out.

 

I also understand chum costs 1 bit to rez. However, the utility of this piece of IC is greatly diminished late game when the runner is "online". So, it's merit early game looks pretty neat, except for two very serious negatives. Firstly, in order to get any use of this IC once rezzed, it must be in front of another piece of IC. This restricts its functionality. Secondly, if you do happen to once again, catch the runner off guard and unprepared, they can just jack out.



#2 Malgamus

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:51 AM

 A runner who jacks out still wasted at least an action that turn and they didn't get your agenda. They don't say end the run explicitly but they do in spirit.



#3 AussieKSU

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

I can pay 1 out of faction, and 1 bit for an IC that doesn't, in spirit say end the run - ice wall.

If it's economy you're after, neither holds a candle to data raven.



#4 Toqtamish

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:27 AM

How about we use the correct terminology and not some other terms. It is credits and ice not bits and IC. There are new people playing this game who never even heard of the game that it's game engine is based on so let's avoid confusing people.

Chum is not as bad as you make it sound to be as the damage it can give the other ice behind can kill the runner assuming the runner does not jack out. Also if Chum does force the runner to jack out that has helped to prevent the runner from potentially stealing your agenda.



#5 AussieKSU

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

Toqtamish said:

How about we use the correct terminology and not some other terms.

 

Noted, force of habit.

 

 



#6 JerusalemJones

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:45 AM

 I have used Chum several times to great effect. It works best when the runner feels they can bust the second piece of ice. In a game I played last weekend, my starting hand had two Chums and two Neural Katanas. My actions the first two rounds were the same: install NK, install Chum, gain a credit (turn one on R&D, turn two on Archives, as I was playing against Noise). Sure enough, turn two he made a run on R&D. I rezzed Chum. He figured the second card was Data Mine. It was devilishly fun to win that fast.

I will agree that later in the game it can be less useful, but I see no reason not to use this ice at present. When it works, it works great.



#7 cliffetters

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:29 AM

 I've not used Cell Portal, but I can see it being nastily effective as the base IC on a Haas-Bioroid server protected further out by Heimdall 1.0, Ichi 1.0, or Victor 1.0. I'm not sure if I can see it being used elsewhere effectively.

Unfortunately, the runner can choose to jack out at this point, but if they've burned through clicks to get through the HB Ice, it's pretty much going to end their turn.



#8 photogasm

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

Cell Portal being what it is is exactly why I'd like to see a server upgrade that prevents the runner from jacking out during runs on that server.



#9 radioactivemouse

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:04 PM

Chum isn't meant to be a stopper, as most Corporations would like their ICE to be. Chum is, rather, a deterrent. At best, it's a wasted run/click if the runner jacks out before Chum activates on the next piece of ICE. At worst, it's a precursor to a deadly stopper that could prove fatal. The trick is utilizing it to the best of its ability during a game.

 

I tend to see Chum as a support card, kinda like Akitaro Watanabe (rez cost of ICE protecting this server is lowered by 2)…or the second card in a good 2 card combo. 

 

Cell Portal is the same. Slap a CP next to the server, place another ICE after, then Chum…yeah, you derez CP, but it's mighty frustrating if it goes off. 



#10 cliffetters

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:46 AM

radioactivemouse said:

 

Chum isn't meant to be a stopper, as most Corporations would like their ICE to be. Chum is, rather, a deterrent. At best, it's a wasted run/click if the runner jacks out before Chum activates on the next piece of ICE. At worst, it's a precursor to a deadly stopper that could prove fatal. The trick is utilizing it to the best of its ability during a game.

 

I tend to see Chum as a support card, kinda like Akitaro Watanabe (rez cost of ICE protecting this server is lowered by 2)…or the second card in a good 2 card combo. 

 

Cell Portal is the same. Slap a CP next to the server, place another ICE after, then Chum…yeah, you derez CP, but it's mighty frustrating if it goes off. 

 

 

You make a good point that I think we sometimes forget. Individual installations of IC is seldom the end all/be all of stopping runners. It's deterrent. Even unrezzed, it's deterrent. The concept dovetails nicely with the meta-story of the game.

It's in the late early and middle part of the game where you start stacking it deep and IC becomes less a deterent and more a matter of seriously stopping the runner. 

++END OF LINE++

 



#11 Zap Rowsdower

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

I don't see the runner having the chance to jack out as negative at all. The purpose of most ICE is to stop the run. If the runner is forced to choose to jack out, then you have accomplished that goal.

The biggest drawback of Chum in my mind is that it is worthless on its own.



#12 Rellarella

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

AussieKSU said:

Without additional text in the subroutine stating that "the runner may not jack out for the remainder of the run", I find both pieces of ice pretty weak.

I do understand the utility of cell portal late, late game, with atleast 3 pieces of IC on a server, but this means that cell portal must be set as the IC closestto the root as possible. Furthermore, if you plan on "surprising" the runner with a cell portal, and they are indeed caught very unprepared, they can always just jack out.

 

I also understand chum costs 1 bit to rez. However, the utility of this piece of IC is greatly diminished late game when the runner is "online". So, it's merit early game looks pretty neat, except for two very serious negatives. Firstly, in order to get any use of this IC once rezzed, it must be in front of another piece of IC. This restricts its functionality. Secondly, if you do happen to once again, catch the runner off guard and unprepared, they can just jack out.

CP is difficult to find in most corporations (perhaps there was a ban?) because it's hard to use effectively and really wants Sunset to truly shine. I don't think it's weak though, I think it's basically a premium version of ASH or Red Herrings where the goal is to simply pay creds to ETR but CP can't be trashed. At 7 strength it's costly to break as well. CP is a niche card though, not something you'd throw into any deck like Ice Wall but some decks really love to have some. Bioroids can't get enough CP, for example.

As for chum, what the hell dude? It's 1+ credits for a 4 strength code gate with a potential ETR or even potential end the game if the runner decides to keep going without a killer (or just mimic) and impales themselves on a 6 damage Neural Katana.  Of course anyone that walks through a chum without a decent killer against Jinteki deserves to get fried. If you're having install problems I feel bad for you son, because you have 49 problems and a chum ain't one.



#13 Pwnius

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:03 AM

You are completely missing the point of these cards.

 

CHUM:

It costs you 1 credit.  It has 5 strength.  That is fantastic.  they are paying more credits than  you are to break this badboy even the first time you rez it.

It doesnt say "end the run" but it usually will.  If the next ice is neural katana they will take 6 net damage.  If its something they cant break they will take 3.  You usually wont have to pay to rez the next ice for quite a long time.

Combine it with other cheap high str ice.  Hunter is great for this.  You pay 2 credits to res ice.  you get a str *6* sentry with trace 3 and take 3 net damage. Thats better than tollbooth and neural katana for only 2 credits!

 

CELL PORTAL:

This card is str 7.  thats right.  7.  for 5 credits.  its the same strength as hadrians wall.  for 1/2 the credits.  

But the key thing you are missing is, IF THEY PAY TO BREAK IT, IT DOES NOT DEREZ!

 

So, lets combine these 2 cards.  

chum -> cell portal.

Makes a Str 9 code gate for 7 credits (+1 to play chum).  If you have akitaro on that server, it costs 4 credits.  This will cost the runner in the best case scenario (gordian blade) 8 credits to defeat.  If they fail to beat it they take 3 net damage.  Then they go again.  you can then pay 5 to do them 3 more net damage if they continue (gg!).  

This is clearly the cheapest way to cell portal although probably not the best.



#14 profligate

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

To me, Chum is great as an aggressive early game attempt to murder the runner, by putting it in front of Neural Katana or Data Mine.  It's also a very reasonable answer to one of the most popular answers:  Femme Fatale.  Oh, you Femme my Tollbooth?  Great, lemme just install a little Chum outside of it.  Bypass all you like, sir.

Cell Portal, on the other hand, is a little harder to use effectively.  That said, Jinteki is starting to get the tools to do it.  Other factions will probably run out of influence before they can really kick ass with it.



#15 Frosty Hardtop

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:52 AM

Chum and Cell Portal rely very heavily on position to be effective, and are both relatively weak early game. They need a lot of support, which they are getting, thanks to cards like Sunet. Chum can sneak in a lot more easily in a lot of decks but its value can easily be ruined by Parasite, Forged Activation Orders, or Femme Fatale. A smart deck designed to maximize the relationship between Chum, Cell Portal, and other Ice would be very effective (Akitaro Watanabe makes Cell Portal very cheap to Rez over and over again, for instance, combined with Ice like Pop Up Window or Shadow that net the Corp more money to do it over and over again).






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