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Little and Less Event


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#1 Bomb

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:05 AM

This is a future argument settler.

Little and Less

You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)

 

Just to clarify, this means that you cannot play events that trigger as a Response, right? 
If so, I really wish it said that more specifically because you don't play Responses, you trigger them.  You play Events, Characters, Locations, Attachments, etc. Better text would be "…players cannot play any Events that trigger as a response." if it only affects Events.

Not that I can think of any other card type that could be played as a Response, but I just want to be sure they didn't mix up terminology designing this event and don't want to add it to my deck assuming it works differently than I think.

~Haven't they learned to be as specific as possible? 



#2 db123456

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:32 AM

 I think it means all response from hand



#3 Ratatoskr

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:36 AM

 

Bomb said:

This is a future argument settler.

Little and Less

You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)

 

Just to clarify, this means that you cannot play events that trigger as a Response, right? 
If so, I really wish it said that more specifically because you don't play Responses, you trigger them.  You play Events, Characters, Locations, Attachments, etc. Better text would be "…players cannot play any Events that trigger as a response." if it only affects Events.

Not that I can think of any other card type that could be played as a Response, but I just want to be sure they didn't mix up terminology designing this event and don't want to add it to my deck assuming it works differently than I think.

~Haven't they learned to be as specific as possible? 

I agree, the wording is sloppy. If they meant that players can't play Events with a Response, they should've said so. If they meant that you can't trigger any responses for the remainder of the phase anymore, they should've said that. The way it's worded, there's no telling how it works without asking FFG. Unless there is some precedent for the "play responses" lingo us puny mortals ain't aware of, in which case we'd have to wait for ktom to make an appearance.



#4 ktom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:51 AM

It's sloppy templating on FFG's part.

The precedents would be "cannot trigger additional responses" or "no responses can be used" if it was intended to stop all Response effect.

The precedents would be "cannot play events" if it was intended to only stop events.

 

Since the template precedents that stop events only always includes the word "events," I am inclined to think that the word "play" was substituted for the word "trigger", rather than to think that the word "events" was left off the card entirely. I would treat it as not being able to trigger responses (as opposed to not being able to play events with responses) until the official errata cleans up the language.

 



#5 dcdennis

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:03 AM

 This card has all my deck building senses atwitter.



#6 Bomb

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:05 AM

Thank you ktom. 

I just sent the following question to FFG via the Rules Questions page:

There is a new event named Little and Less with the below text:

"You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)"

Since you don't "play" responses, what kind of responses does this event prevent from being triggered? Is it meant to keep players from playing Events that trigger as a Response? Or is it meant to keep players from triggering any kind of Response for the remainder of the phase? Or is it something else entirely?

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you!

 

I will post their response if and when I hear back from them.



#7 dcdennis

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

 excellent, please let us know once penfold responds :P



#8 Bomb

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:22 AM

Already got an answer from Damon Stone:

"It prevents that playing (triggering, activating, using) any and all responses."

 

This event is going to be meta-changing I think.  It's a global Brienne of Tarth for Responses. 



#9 dcdennis

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:26 AM

 biggest winner is martell HH. they can recurse this event forever with Princes Plans and prevent all responses for the entire game. Nutso! I LOVE IT! To those prepping whiney posts…….you asked for a meta shake-up, now you got it. I applaud this event. GG Damon.



#10 ktom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:41 AM

dcdennis said:

 biggest winner is martell HH. they can recurse this event forever with Princes Plans and prevent all responses for the entire game. Nutso! I LOVE IT! To those prepping whiney posts…….you asked for a meta shake-up, now you got it. I applaud this event. GG Damon.
Actually, Martell may be the biggest loser. They use a TON of Responses themselves, and the card stops all of them, not just opponents'.

Of course, it royally screws Maesters (the Agenda, and most links, are Resposnes…) and Siege decks. So it's kinda silver-bulletish, but still has plenty of uses if your opponents are playing something other than Maesters or Stark-murder.

One of the really fun things is that it is going to make people FAR more aware of the timing windows and when Responses can be played. For example, it's best use might be to go first in Challenges, finish all of your challenges (including Responses to them), then play the event as a Response in the framework action window where "active player" status changes to your opponent. (Oh yeah, that's an action window, which has a Response step!).



#11 dcdennis

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:49 AM

 which brings up a question ive been meaning to ask. can you respond to an action that doesnt happen? meaning if both players pass actions in that window, can you still respond with this event?



#12 Bomb

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:18 AM

I wonder if this event will just eliminate the ability to use Responses during the challenge phase in Melee if everyone is running 2x - 3x of it.



#13 ktom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:24 AM

dcdennis said:

 which brings up a question ive been meaning to ask. can you respond to an action that doesnt happen?
No.

dcdennis said:

meaning if both players pass actions in that window, can you still respond with this event?
No. Remember that the "Player Action Windows" that appear on the flowcharts are not action windows. They are placeholders to tell you where players can take actions if they choose to. It is the actual initiation of an effect that opens an action window. If no one initiates anything, there is no active window, so there is no place to Respond.

So, for example, if you don't use this Response in the "start phase" framework window that begins the challenge phase, and all players pass on triggering an action in the first "pre-challenge" player action window, you won't get a chance to play this event until the Response step of the "initiate challenge" framework action that begins the first challenge.



#14 Ratatoskr

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:04 AM

If you want to make sure no responses at all get triggered during any given phase, all you need to do is play this during the "beginning of the phase" framework action window and you're set.



#15 Sulpures

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 



#16 db123456

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:05 PM

Sulpures said:

 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 

 

all response window



#17 Bomb

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

Sulpures said:

 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 

Sulpures said:

 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 

 

Any response window.



#18 imrahil327

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

ktom said:

dcdennis said:

 which brings up a question ive been meaning to ask. can you respond to an action that doesnt happen?

No.

 

dcdennis said:

meaning if both players pass actions in that window, can you still respond with this event?

No. Remember that the "Player Action Windows" that appear on the flowcharts are not action windows. They are placeholders to tell you where players can take actions if they choose to. It is the actual initiation of an effect that opens an action window. If no one initiates anything, there is no active window, so there is no place to Respond.

 

So, for example, if you don't use this Response in the "start phase" framework window that begins the challenge phase, and all players pass on triggering an action in the first "pre-challenge" player action window, you won't get a chance to play this event until the Response step of the "initiate challenge" framework action that begins the first challenge.

Just to confirm, though, I CAN say "I'm responding to the starting of x phase by playing this" even if there are no other responses to the phase beginning?  And also confirm that this would happen before Shadows?



#19 ktom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

"Response window" is bad templating. There is no such thing as a response "window." There are only response STEPS in other windows (player and framework.)

You CANNOT play it during a save/cancel step. Since it does not use the word "save" or "cancel" so it cannot interrupt the initiation and resolution of another effect. Another reason response "step" would have been clearer: Step 5 is the response step/window. Step 2 is the save/cancel step/window. 

But yes, any time you get to a Step 5, no matter what type of action window it is, you can use the card. That includes the "begin phase" framework window. However, you get to Shadows before you get to "Step 5" of that window. You cannot play it before the first card comes out of Shadows. (Although, since each card that comes out of Shadows has its own response step, you can play it in Response to the first card coming out of Shadows).



#20 imrahil327

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

And if the Shadows card itself has a response (E.G. King's Landing Assassin), does it go to First Player to decide if the Shadows card gets to respond or the opponent gets to play L&L?






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