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"Talent": Remove # setback dice from X action …


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#1 Boehm

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:44 AM

There are a number of talents which allow you to ignore # of setback dice from some particular type of actions - Now my question is what do u do if there are 'no' setback dice to ignore?! Should the GM just be much more liberal with controlling difficulty by way of setback dice, rather than difficulty dice … or would you allow a player to downgrade a difficulty die to a setback die, and then ignore the setback die …if he could in total ignore 2 setback dice?

How have you guys handles this so far?



#2 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

Boehm said:

There are a number of talents which allow you to ignore # of setback dice from some particular type of actions - Now my question is what do u do if there are 'no' setback dice to ignore?! Should the GM just be much more liberal with controlling difficulty by way of setback dice, rather than difficulty dice … or would you allow a player to downgrade a difficulty die to a setback die, and then ignore the setback die …if he could in total ignore 2 setback dice?

How have you guys handles this so far?

The way I've handled it to date is that if there's no setback dice, then there's nothing for the talent to do.  Those talents don't necessarily mean the PC is "better" at a certain task than most folks, but more that they're not as troubled by "mitigating factors" like poor working conditions or substandard tools (i.e. things that would apply setback dice to a roll) than the average person would be.

I kind of like that not every talent is going to be universally useful in every situation.  We've got that with combat talents, such as Point Blank and Barrage and Feral Strength, adding damage to specific weapons under certain circumstances.

As for your proposed example, I'm guessing this is a case where the PC has taken multiple instances of a talent that removes setback dice, such as Researcher or Galaxy Mapper?  Otherwise, being able to downgrade the difficulty (which by itself is huge) and then remove a setback die with only a single selection of the talent is way too good of a benefit.


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#3 3WhiteFox3

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:08 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

 

Boehm said:

 

There are a number of talents which allow you to ignore # of setback dice from some particular type of actions - Now my question is what do u do if there are 'no' setback dice to ignore?! Should the GM just be much more liberal with controlling difficulty by way of setback dice, rather than difficulty dice … or would you allow a player to downgrade a difficulty die to a setback die, and then ignore the setback die …if he could in total ignore 2 setback dice?

How have you guys handles this so far?

 

 

The way I've handled it to date is that if there's no setback dice, then there's nothing for the talent to do.  Those talents don't necessarily mean the PC is "better" at a certain task than most folks, but more that they're not as troubled by "mitigating factors" like poor working conditions or substandard tools (i.e. things that would apply setback dice to a roll) than the average person would be.

I kind of like that not every talent is going to be universally useful in every situation.  We've got that with combat talents, such as Point Blank and Barrage and Feral Strength, adding damage to specific weapons under certain circumstances.

As for your proposed example, I'm guessing this is a case where the PC has taken multiple instances of a talent that removes setback dice, such as Researcher or Galaxy Mapper?  Otherwise, being able to downgrade the difficulty (which by itself is huge) and then remove a setback die with only a single selection of the talent is way too good of a benefit.

 

I agree but would like to add the following. Removing a setback die should be much easier than adding a boost die; as it is, it seems like the two are seen as equivalent by the designers. This is despite the fact that you won't always have setback dice, but a boost die is always helpful. 

 

Another issue is that there needs to be listings for each individual skill/action showing what setback dice could be added. There is a talent (Galaxy Mapper?) that removes setback dice for Astrogation, but most of the things that would make since for setback are covered under difficulty increases for Astrogation. This means that the DM has to throw you a bone for removing setback dice. That said, in my group I didn't have any complaints from the Pilot who removed setback dice from Pilot checks, he has already had several instances where it was very useful (having advantage/threat add setback dice in combat really helps this).



#4 AFrede

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

I have found that the best way to get around the problem of never having setback dice to remove is to almost always involve setback dice in the roll for something. Since the majority of rolls are boosted in some form or another the setback dice are not a huge inconvienence to the players and it makes the players who have talents like that feel good about the xp they have invested in them.

In speaking situations this can involve communicating across language or cultural barriers, external events that have altered the mood of the target, and even career and race discrimination. Oh this guy got burned by a slicer a month ago so he really doesn't trust you so that deceit roll is going to have a setback dice.

In physical situations, everything from lighting and weather, to unfamiliarity with the surroundings, or even having a few too many drinks at the bar can all have an influence on the actions.



#5 jordiver2

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

 I'm in agreement with your comments, very true all around, and I have been planning on nearly always including setbacks in scenes to pluck and spice checks with.

I also think the talents that subtract setback dice are a wonderful way for players to push their skill checks with stunts, extreme risks, and heroic feats of daring-do.

Like skills checks in combat that are not directly involved with shooting or hitting somebody, the GM can throw black 6er's at the mechanic or scoundrel while they are breaking through a blast door or trying to steal a keycard from the Imperial Officer, and I like the idea of these talents giving that edge in these situations.






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