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How to continue DH without doing a "redo"


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#1 Lord Of The Night

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:06 PM

I was just wondering if anyone else thinks that just scrapping the Ascension book as a "trial" product would be a good idea. Instead maybe FFG could make an entire Ascension line (DH expansion) complete with Ascension: Core book (updated everything pertaining to ranks 9 - 16) that would all at once fix Ascension, officially update the rules in a way to work with both the DH line and the newer trend (black crusade/only war), and allow for more material for those acolytes that are higher level. Anyone think this is plausible or have more ideas? Also forgive me, first time post!



#2 Jeans_Stealer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

Your idea is commendable.

But from the way it looks, DH / Ascension might get supplements, but won't recieve any more changes/updates.
Personally I'm looking at applying the Only War/Black Crusade rules to DH - it's not impossible.

…Plus, of what of heard of Ascension… I don't wanna go there.



#3 Droma

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:46 AM

Jeans_Stealer said:

Personally I'm looking at applying the Only War/Black Crusade rules to DH - it's not impossible.


I'm currently using the only war rules except for part about logistics. For getting new gear I'm using the RT rules and starting acolytes are at 10 profit factor and don't get the +30 bonus for a personal item. So far it has worked pretty damn well. We're 8 sessions in and having a lot of fun.



#4 djgreaves

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:42 AM

 i've used the asention rules for about 6 month in my old game and the only thing i have to say is make your monster hard and i dont mean just tun them up a little I MEAN MAKE THEM HARD.

 

asession it self isnt that bad once you figure out what broken and genraly the core heresy book can help over rule the assension rules 



#5 Lord Of The Night

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:05 AM

Right now my group has just started using Ascension and I've had to house rule almost everything. Give monthly thrones while allowing requisition for major things such as a squad or two of guard. Erased the package system for talents and instead made them a list of options (include talents 200 a piece and a consecutive climbing 100 for each skill advance with talented being 400), black crusade/rogue trader talents are 500 a piece elite advances with class specific talents (moritat reaping) being 1000exp advance elite advance as long as it is a rank 7 or lower class. I was just thinking about a way that they could approach this "DH 2.0" system without having to change any of the old material. Also I'm using deathwatch missions to challenge my characters as a 75 wound broodlord should make them think twice.

But with how terrible the resources, transition packages, gear section, psyker rules and everything else is in that book I thought that doing a reboot that continues the line and maybe puts out some nicer things could be beneficial. Today is our second session of Ascension and I'm proud to say that we have one character still alive from rank 1!



#6 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:24 AM

djgreaves said:

 i've used the asention rules for about 6 month in my old game and the only thing i have to say is make your monster hard and i dont mean just tun them up a little I MEAN MAKE THEM HARD.

 

asession it self isnt that bad once you figure out what broken and genraly the core heresy book can help over rule the assension rules 

We've been playing our DH characters for a looong time now and we're just about to Ascend.

I can certainly see how some characters can become quite powerful but that's also the point, isn't it? You're moving up to become the badasses of the Inquisition, legendary figures in the long history of the Imperium. You should be scary and powerful enough to potentially hunt Xenos and such for decades and make them fear you.

 

For the most part, our group is pretty good with sniffing out the stuff that's broken after a session or two and reaching a consensus but a heads-up would be very appreciated: What's particularly broken? What things should we be looking out for?



#7 furashgf

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:57 AM

Correct me if I’m wrong, but when we’re talking about “converting” W40K, it’s  two pieces we may or may not be “upgrading” mechanically: core rules (e.g., shooting, combat, psychic powers, whatever); and character creation and advancement.

1. How would you convert character creation and advancement to Only War or Black Crusade? Aren’t they missing the core “careers” of dark heresy, or do they use a different approach (e.g., specializations or something). I've heard that the later systems are more freeform, and many powers/talents, whatever can be trivially converted (X gives you +y to leadership if Z).


2. Is there a rule set that is sufficient to cover the “core rules” part? I.e., does Only War or Black Crusade cover psychic powers, politics, "social" combat, etc.?
 



#8 Droma

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:46 AM

1.  Only War(can't speak for BC) has specializations that function similarly to DH careers. However OW characters can purchase any characteristic, talent, or skill they are qualified for. The way it functions is each character gets a number of "aptitudes" based on home world and specialization. The more aptitudes you have in common with a characteristic/talent/skill the cheaper it is to buy.

You can't convert already created DH characters but it's very easy to homebrew them. All you have to decide is what aptitudes an adept, arbitrator, scum, etc would get and what starting skills, talents, and equipment they need. Check out this thread for some solid examples.

2. Short answer is yes. The biggest difference between DH and every other 40k system is the way psychic powers work. So this is the hardest to "convert". OW has a solid psychic system but lacks a lot of the utility powers that DH has.



#9 Plushy

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:37 PM

 Oh no, my work being recommended! You'll make me blush!

Only War is a really fantastic system. Your character has a core Specializations, which determines his starting gear, skills, and talents. It also decides your starting Aptitudes. Aptitudes are a new mechanic for Only War; every skill, talent, and characteristic advance has a pair of Aptitudes that go with it. If your character has both of those aptitudes, purchasing it will be cheaper than if you only have one or neither of the two. You still have to qualify for talents, though - don't worry about your Adept getting Bulging Biceps unless he's rolled really well and bought nothing but Strength bonuses.

The main perk of the Aptitudes system over hard Career Paths is that it lets you build your character however you wish. While each Specialization has niches that are certainly cheaper for them to buy into, you can get most of what you want provided you pony up the xp for it.

Only War has also made quite a few nice little system changes from what you're used to in Dark Heresy. Single Shot/Semi-Auto Burst/Full-Auto now give +10/+0/-10 BS, while Standard Attack/Swift Attack/Lightning Attack are the same as firing a ranged weapon, save for using WS. Psychic powers have been reigned in a bit and are somewhat harder to break, although a Pyromancer with high WP, proper gear, and a lot of luck can Push and get some spectacular results. Skill bloat has been cut down on a lot.

I'd say to give it a shot. The final game isn't out yet, but I'm sure you can somehow find the beta out there somewhere. Make sure to grab the Week 7 update off the site.

 

Alternatively, if you really want to use Ascension… I'd disallow the Vindicare Assassin and Primaris Psyker careers. Vindicares can become impossible to hit, and someone did the math for where a Primaris can kill multiple Greater  Daemons in one round. It also punishes characters for not having good Fellowship scores and gives you a lot of little things to keep track of.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!





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