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Dipole Mag-lock


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#1 kjakan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:16 AM

Considering that this weapon upgrade item grants the user the Quick Draw talent with the attached weapon, and the fact that by default the Battle-Brother will have the Quick Draw talent as one of his starting talents, is there any further benefit to be drawn (heh!) from it?

I assume that these kind of weapons would normally (i.e. without the dipole mag-lock) be holstered or slung over the shoulder by a strap or something thus freeing the Battle-Brother's hands.

-K



#2 herichimo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:05 AM

Space Marines count as having the quick draw talent only for basic or pistol weapons. Anything else (heavy) requires the standard ready action to take out and put away.

Its also worth noting its a free action to ready a basic or pistol weapon, but many GMs (myself included) rule readying two basic or pistol weapons at the same time (putting one away and drawing another) counts as a single half action (vs. two half actions for a person without quick-draw). Similarly the idea of the dipole maglock would trivialise this to the point you can ready the non-dipole weapon as a free action and readying the dipole weapon is so simple it still counts as a free action.

Dipoles also allow players to put weapons places they normally wouldn't be able to. Say mag-locking your bolter to a fore-arm instead of the thigh or other 'conventional' location. Equipment bulk being the main concern for space marine carrying capacity, being able to place a weapon somewhere else to make room for another weapon or piece of equipment is pretty handy.



#3 Zenoth16

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:50 AM

From my understanding of quick draw it can only be used on your turn. The dipole mag-lock allows for a melee weapon to be drawn as part of a parry reaction if you already have quick draw talent. As an example if you fired your boltgun at the genestealer coming down the hall on your turn and he then charges you on his turn. You can draw your melee weapon and parry with it as a reaction if your melee weapon has a dipole mag-lock.



#4 kjakan

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:00 AM

Awkward: I completely missed the part where the Dipole Mag-lock and Quick Draw combines to a sort of Quick Draw Plus with regards to Parry.

The rule seems to suggest that the Battle-Brother needs to have at least one hand empty when making use of this bonus feature. Any thoughts on this?

-K



#5 herichimo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

Well, you can't put a weapon in a hand that already has a weapon in it.



#6 kjakan

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:43 AM

And dropping a weapon is a Free Action.

-K



#7 herichimo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:16 PM

kjakan said:

 

And dropping a weapon is a Free Action.

-K

 

 

But can't be done as a reaction. You can't take free actions unless it is your characters turn.

Not to mention you've got to go and pick up the other weapon if you want it back (picking a gun off the ground is definately not a free action).



#8 Zenoth16

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:40 AM

A boltgun isnt so heavy or big that you cant release with one hand to draw the melee weapon and still hold on to the boltgun with the other. And if you read the entry on dipole mag-lock it propels the weapon to the characters hand, so it shouldn't matter if the hand start from your side or the stock of a gun. As long as the character is aware of the threat, parrying while using a boltgun should not be an issue.



#9 Gaire

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

 Not to mention, Astartes Power Armor grants Recoil Suppression, so you can not only hold but can actually use and fire any Pistol or Basic ranged weapon with one hand. Taking a hand off of a boltgun to catch a sword would be part of the (Re)action. You don't have to drop your gun. As to the issue of storage space/carrying spots on Astartes Power Armor, it is stated somewhere in the Armory chapter (I'm not looking it up right now) that all Marines use mag-locks to secure their gear to their armor. The Dipole Mag-Lock actively propels the gear into the Marine's hand at will, granting the Quick Draw talent for the gear or allowing the Marine to draw the weapon as part of a Reaction.



#10 Kasatka

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:09 PM

 Always take a dipole mag-lock on your primary melee weapon, even if it is just your astartes combat blade. Then utilize a basic or pistol weapon so that at any time you can draw your melee weapon as a parry reaction. This = winsauce.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#11 herichimo

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:54 AM

Zenoth16 said:

And if you read the entry on dipole mag-lock it propels the weapon to the characters hand, so it shouldn't matter if the hand start from your side or the stock of a gun.

As you've read the description I'm sure you noticed its done with magnets. And you've read, "…triggers in the glove of the weapon hand that cause the magnet to reverse polarity when brought near it." I didn't notice anything about magical invisible arms which can move the weapon anywhere you want. The weapon only propels about half a foot or so straight away from its mounting. If your hand isn't there to catch it the weapon just hits the dirt, and would look like a real-robot anime mech ejecting a weapon that ran out of ammo.

I'm sure you also read, "allowing him to go from unarmed to deflecting an enemy blade with his own in the blink of an eye." Emphasis mine. I didn't know unarmed now means "having a weapon in his hand". When did that change happen?

Common sense (which the rulebook states GMs should use, things which are impossible are impossible) indicates the di-pole maglock does not magically teleport weapons to your hand wherever your hand may be. The actual rules also indicate you must be UNARMED to use the quick draw talent to parry. The rules also still say free actions may only be used durring your turn. Only reactions may be used when it is not your turn, a reaction does not include a free action.



#12 Zenoth16

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:31 AM

herichimo said:

 

As you've read the description I'm sure you noticed its done with magnets. And you've read, "…triggers in the glove of the weapon hand that cause the magnet to reverse polarity when brought near it." I didn't notice anything about magical invisible arms which can move the weapon anywhere you want. The weapon only propels about half a foot or so straight away from its mounting. If your hand isn't there to catch it the weapon just hits the dirt, and would look like a real-robot anime mech ejecting a weapon that ran out of ammo.

I'm sure you also read, "allowing him to go from unarmed to deflecting an enemy blade with his own in the blink of an eye." Emphasis mine. I didn't know unarmed now means "having a weapon in his hand". When did that change happen?

Common sense (which the rulebook states GMs should use, things which are impossible are impossible) indicates the di-pole maglock does not magically teleport weapons to your hand wherever your hand may be. The actual rules also indicate you must be UNARMED to use the quick draw talent to parry. The rules also still say free actions may only be used durring your turn. Only reactions may be used when it is not your turn, a reaction does not include a free action.

 

 

The description also states that "versions using verbal and more sophisticated somatic cues also exist" and does not list a distance that it propels the weapon.

The "allowing him to go from unarmed to deflecting an enemy blade with his own in the blink of an eye" sounds more like flavor text than them saying this is the only way this item can be used.

I finally see the difference in our views though. You assume the melee weapon is on the marines hip and I assume it is on his chest (because that is where I always have it when I use a dipole mag-lock). Based off of your assumptions, my understanding of the dipole mag-lock doesnt make much sense but in mine it does.



#13 Gaire

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:05 AM

 I think it's a bit pedantic to say that the Marine cannot take a hand off his bolter as part of a reaction- thus being unarmed in that hand- to draw the melee weapon. I mean, if the weapon in question is a power claymore, then no, ya gotta have both hands empty. But for a combat knife or a power sword or any other one-handed melee weapon, I don't feel like it's game-breaking to allow it. And if you force the point, your players are just going to always state that they're one-handing their basic weapons.



#14 Zenoth16

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:38 AM

Gaire said:

 I think it's a bit pedantic to say that the Marine cannot take a hand off his bolter as part of a reaction- thus being unarmed in that hand- to draw the melee weapon. I mean, if the weapon in question is a power claymore, then no, ya gotta have both hands empty. But for a combat knife or a power sword or any other one-handed melee weapon, I don't feel like it's game-breaking to allow it. And if you force the point, your players are just going to always state that they're one-handing their basic weapons.

Or after firing with both hands just state that you let got with one as a free action. Munchkins with try and find a way to do what they want anyway.



#15 Buzz Saw

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

 Dipole Mag-locks also let you release a weapon to put it away without spending an action to put it away.  The Deathwatch character can release a weapon with a Dipole-lock and then use quick draw to draw a new weapon and still have ownership of both weapons.



#16 kjakan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

Actually, the Ready action allows the character to stow one item and retrieve another. So that's already covered by the Quick Draw talent.

-K






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