Jump to content



Photo

What's the Worst 100pt team you can come up with?


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Everyone is always trying to come up with good teams; how about some bad ones for a change? 

What's the worst possible while still getting reasonably close to 100 points and not trying to overuse terrible upgrade cards too much (e.g. giving Swarm Tactics to many low skill pilots for zero possible benefit).

 



#2 KarmikazeKidd

KarmikazeKidd

    Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

 5 Y-wings, no Ion Cannons. Hands down. That would be maddening.



#3 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

KarmikazeKidd said:

 5 Y-wings, no Ion Cannons. Hands down. That would be maddening.

Yeah, Grey Squadron x5 (100pts) would lose to Academy Pilot x5 (60pts) most of the time. I don't think it is possible to even have a truly terrible Imperial team because they aren't dependent on upgrades like the Rebels. Academy Pilot x8 (96pts) is still totally viable and even has room to trade in one of them for a named pilot.



#4 Parakitor

Parakitor

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,053 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

I was about to suggest that 4 Tempest Squadron TIE Advanced pilots would be bad, but it really wouldn't be any different than 4 Rookie X-wing pilots. In fact, I think the TIE Advanced squad would be better because half could have Cluster Missiles (range 1-2) and the other half would have Concussion Missiles (range 2-3). I know FFG suggested 4 Rookie Pilots w/ Proton Torpedoes as a squad build in one of their previews; can anybody provide insight as to whether it's a good or bad squad? I haven't been able to try it out yet.


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#5 xBeakeRx

xBeakeRx

    Member

  • Members
  • 200 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

 I don't know if its really possible to make a "bad" squad, but if there was one it would probably be the aforementioned 5 y-wing swarm with no upgrades.



#6 R5Don4

R5Don4

    Member

  • Members
  • 398 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:20 AM

Parakitor said:

 I know FFG suggested 4 Rookie Pilots w/ Proton Torpedoes as a squad build in one of their previews; can anybody provide insight as to whether it's a good or bad squad? I haven't been able to try it out yet.

 

Yes that is a bad squad.  Proton Torps in most cases are not worth it.  For 100 pts you could upgrade two of those Rookies to Wedge and Biggs with Astromechs.  


Great forum http://www.afewmaneuvers.com/index

Looking for a game in the Greater Toronto Area?  We can hook you up https://www.facebook.com/groups/swgon/ Star Wars Gaming Ontario formerly known as Star Wars Miniatures Toronto


#7 qwertyuiop

qwertyuiop

    Member

  • Members
  • 815 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

R5Don4 said:

Parakitor said:

 

 I know FFG suggested 4 Rookie Pilots w/ Proton Torpedoes as a squad build in one of their previews; can anybody provide insight as to whether it's a good or bad squad? I haven't been able to try it out yet.

 

 

 

Yes that is a bad squad.  Proton Torps in most cases are not worth it.  For 100 pts you could upgrade two of those Rookies to Wedge and Biggs with Astromechs.  

This is not a bad squad. This is a limited squad. This squad requires a player to really make his own opportunities.



#8 Ryan the Lion

Ryan the Lion

    Member

  • Members
  • 58 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.



#9 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:57 PM

Ryan the Lion said:

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

It'd be a funny battle to watch at least. If you ever do it, post it in the battle reports section.

I've done some calculations and five 12pt TIE fighters would win most of the time. Eight 12pt TIEs would almost certainly wipe them out.



#10 KarmikazeKidd

KarmikazeKidd

    Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

Ryan the Lion said:

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 



#11 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

KarmikazeKidd said:

Ryan the Lion said:

 

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

 

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 

 

As long as the TIE Fighters can use Evades properly without wasting too many actions in a 5 (60pt) vs. 5 (100pt) match up, they can win. Also, they need to try to stay at Range 2-3 because the Ys having 3 attack dice instead of 2 gets dangerous.



#12 xBeakeRx

xBeakeRx

    Member

  • Members
  • 200 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

ShadowJak said:

KarmikazeKidd said:

 

Ryan the Lion said:

 

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

 

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 

 

 

 

As long as the TIE Fighters can use Evades properly without wasting too many actions in a 5 (60pt) vs. 5 (100pt) match up, they can win. Also, they need to try to stay at Range 2-3 because the Ys having 3 attack dice instead of 2 gets dangerous.

Even with the 3 attack dice at range 1, the tie fighter still has 3 evades which is fine. The difference is, at range 1 the ties are getting the same 3 attack, but the y-wings still only have that terrible 1 defense. Even with focus the still only have the potential for 1 evade, so the ties would just eat them up, even at range 1.



#13 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:38 PM

xBeakeRx said:

ShadowJak said:

 

KarmikazeKidd said:

 

Ryan the Lion said:

 

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

 

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 

 

 

 

As long as the TIE Fighters can use Evades properly without wasting too many actions in a 5 (60pt) vs. 5 (100pt) match up, they can win. Also, they need to try to stay at Range 2-3 because the Ys having 3 attack dice instead of 2 gets dangerous.

 

 

Even with the 3 attack dice at range 1, the tie fighter still has 3 evades which is fine. The difference is, at range 1 the ties are getting the same 3 attack, but the y-wings still only have that terrible 1 defense. Even with focus the still only have the potential for 1 evade, so the ties would just eat them up, even at range 1.

That's not true at all. None of what you just said is based on any actual data; it looks plausible on the surface but can be shown to be false.



#14 R5Don4

R5Don4

    Member

  • Members
  • 398 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:24 AM

qwertyuiop said:

R5Don4 said:

 

Parakitor said:

 

 I know FFG suggested 4 Rookie Pilots w/ Proton Torpedoes as a squad build in one of their previews; can anybody provide insight as to whether it's a good or bad squad? I haven't been able to try it out yet.

 

 

 

Yes that is a bad squad.  Proton Torps in most cases are not worth it.  For 100 pts you could upgrade two of those Rookies to Wedge and Biggs with Astromechs.  

 

 

This is not a bad squad. This is a limited squad. This squad requires a player to really make his own opportunities.

 

I agree.  The only way to win with this squad is cheat.


Great forum http://www.afewmaneuvers.com/index

Looking for a game in the Greater Toronto Area?  We can hook you up https://www.facebook.com/groups/swgon/ Star Wars Gaming Ontario formerly known as Star Wars Miniatures Toronto


#15 KarmikazeKidd

KarmikazeKidd

    Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

ShadowJak said:

xBeakeRx said:

 

ShadowJak said:

 

KarmikazeKidd said:

 

Ryan the Lion said:

 

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

 

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 

 

 

 

As long as the TIE Fighters can use Evades properly without wasting too many actions in a 5 (60pt) vs. 5 (100pt) match up, they can win. Also, they need to try to stay at Range 2-3 because the Ys having 3 attack dice instead of 2 gets dangerous.

 

 

Even with the 3 attack dice at range 1, the tie fighter still has 3 evades which is fine. The difference is, at range 1 the ties are getting the same 3 attack, but the y-wings still only have that terrible 1 defense. Even with focus the still only have the potential for 1 evade, so the ties would just eat them up, even at range 1.

 

 

That's not true at all. None of what you just said is based on any actual data; it looks plausible on the surface but can be shown to be false.

Then do so. Perhaps he didn't take time out of his day to sit and calculate, record, and present you with data. But logic is still logic, and the premise is sound.



#16 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:38 PM

KarmikazeKidd said:

 

ShadowJak said:

 

xBeakeRx said:

 

ShadowJak said:

 

KarmikazeKidd said:

 

Ryan the Lion said:

 

 I can't help but think that 5 Gold Squadron Y-Wing pilots with no ion cannons would still be a bucket of hull points and shields to deal with.  I'd be tempted to try it just to see if they could win via attrition.

 

I don't think it would matter much. With 2 attack and 1 agility vs. 2 attack and 3 agility (and optional evade tokens) I think the odds are still solidly against the Y-wing. Especially once you factor in their pathetic maneuverability. 

 

 

 

As long as the TIE Fighters can use Evades properly without wasting too many actions in a 5 (60pt) vs. 5 (100pt) match up, they can win. Also, they need to try to stay at Range 2-3 because the Ys having 3 attack dice instead of 2 gets dangerous.

 

 

Even with the 3 attack dice at range 1, the tie fighter still has 3 evades which is fine. The difference is, at range 1 the ties are getting the same 3 attack, but the y-wings still only have that terrible 1 defense. Even with focus the still only have the potential for 1 evade, so the ties would just eat them up, even at range 1.

 

 

That's not true at all. None of what you just said is based on any actual data; it looks plausible on the surface but can be shown to be false.

 

Then do so. Perhaps he didn't take time out of his day to sit and calculate, record, and present you with data. But logic is still logic, and the premise is sound.

 

 

 

Y-Wings suck without cannons

I wrote this spreadsheet so I could read it easily. It might seem a bit obtuse to everyone else. For that, I apologize.

The top set of boxes are at range 2, the middle at range 1, and the bottom at range 3.

Column A shows what happens when a TIE attacks a Y. DMG/Rnd is the average damage per round and "# Rounds" is the number of rounds it'd take on average for a TIE to kill a Y. This is assuming Equal pilot skills, but I'll get to that later.

Column B is the same except it is a Y-Wing attacking a TIE.

B-A Rnds is the B's "# Rounds" column less A's "# Rounds" column. Being a positive number means that it will take B (in this case a Y-Wing) that many more rounds to kill A (in this case a TIE). Being a positive number is good for ship A (the TIE). To compensate for the difference in pilot skill, you can just mentally subtract 1 from the value in the "B-A Rnds" cell.

You will notice the results tend to be better for the TIE at ranges 2 to 3.

Also, you will notice that the Y has the advantage in most cases. However, where the Y doesn't have the advantage is when the TIE uses an evade action (especially at ranges 2 to 3). Fortunately for the TIE, the TIE can choose to evade every time if it chooses. 

Yes, I know my analysis is still a bit facile because it doesn't take into account the effects of crits, differences in movement dials, or action bars (it should be noted that Target Locks have the same offensive power as Focusing), but in general, TIEs can fly circles around Y-Wings. That's why I say that 60pts of TIEs can win against 100pts of Gray Ys. Also, being at range 2 to 3 is usually better than being range 1

It wouldn't be a blow out and after looking at the data more (and playing the game more), the Ys may even have an advantage, but it is still kind of sad that 60pts in TIEs has a pretty good chance of winning.

EDIT: It may be best to open the image in its own window to see it properly.



#17 qwertyuiop

qwertyuiop

    Member

  • Members
  • 815 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:54 PM

but did you factor in fighting spirit?! 

nice tables!



#18 ShadowJak

ShadowJak

    Member

  • Members
  • 287 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:06 PM

qwertyuiop said:

but did you factor in fighting spirit?! 

nice tables!

Nope, no fighting spirit. 

There is actually more to it than I showed. The data comes from a big grid above it that lists all the attacks vs. most of the defenses. It doesn't include having 5 defense dice or crits because I didn't do that part of the statistical analysis. I could do it, but my stats skills are really rusty.



#19 KarmikazeKidd

KarmikazeKidd

    Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:33 PM

 Nicely done. I still think his point is valid, however. He wasn't saying that range 2-3 wasn't a better bet for the TIEs, just that they would still own even at 1. And even with those stats, I still think he's right…mostly because of evade tokens. Not to mention maneuverability in a real game scenario. I credit you though for giving a bit of weight to the idea that the Ys are not quite as outmatched as they might initially appear.



#20 mrblurr

mrblurr

    Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:26 AM

Anything that involves Rebels.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS