Jump to content



Photo

Threat from the East Restricted


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 flipperlord

flipperlord

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:02 PM

 While I was personally happy to see this card hit the joust restricted list due to the hand crushing Stark combo, I am concerned that this restriction does not really hamper this Stark deck too much, other than removing Fear of Winter from the deck.  What are your thoughts?



#2 SirDuck

SirDuck

    Member

  • Members
  • 86 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

The deck used The maester path agenda to limit the cards in the deck, giving a greater chance of pulling the combo early in the game.  So now the deck has to try and accomplish it with 60 cards instead of 48-52ish.



#3 Dr.Cornelius

Dr.Cornelius

    Member

  • Members
  • 112 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:30 PM

What is the combo?



#4 Tarjan

Tarjan

    Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:49 PM

2 manipulation of plot (Citadel Law x2 or Citadel law x1 and bran x1) COuting Favor, RUle by decree and Threat from the East.



#5 Ire

Ire

    Member

  • Members
  • 138 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

A plot cycle on the first turn. Counting favors, Rule by Decree and Thrat from the east. These 3 plots will make sure your opponent starts the game with 1 card in hand after the first plot phase. (you have to use a card from your hand before using rule by decree and you need some cards to be able to cycle the plots).



#6 RobotMartini

RobotMartini

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:30 AM

Restriction feels like a knee jerk reaction, since Bara TMP was forced to use this combo after Threat from the East was errata'ed last. While needing needing 1 less Maester and Citidal Law because of Bran makes it easier for Stark to abuse the combo -- and the combo is very painful -- it is a telegraphed play that takes 3 actions, which is an eternity for so much to go wrong:

+ Citedal Law can be canceled by Paper Shield and He Calls it Thinking and Finger Dance or discarded with confession

+ The Maester cant pay for Citedal Law if you use Nightmares or Burn him

+ Bran can be canceled by Blood Rider, Blanked by Nightmares or Burnt or death by payne'd or knelt with you killed the wrong dwarf

+ Threat can be cancelled by Outwit

+ Rule by Decree can backfire to the opponent's Much and More, and other Any Phase events (Nightmares/epic phases)

+ It doesn't work against Bara if they have TLS and puts Darkstar into play

+ Fear of Winter clogs it's advantage and allows a superior setup to wipe it in counter attack

+ Plot rotation decks can snipe it using city of soldiers or block it using burning bridges, search and detain and/or fortified position or protect their hand by using city of shadows to drop 2 shadows cards out of the hand.

+ At the Gates, Raven search, Family Duty Honor, and (much more difficult) the Prince's Plans all mitigate the loss

Even when the combo goes off flawlessly, the 'winner' has little left of his setup and, since his deck has to be stark maesters, he's either got a ton of weenies to maximize his own setup and chances to draw into the combo (and is weak against First Snow of Winter) or has fairly average characters as follow up, which means your own setup may hold the line. Yes, it is a very powerful effect but it's still quite fragile and, given enough exposure in the meta, should start getting identified and thwarted before it happens.



#7 HoyaLawya

HoyaLawya

    Member

  • Members
  • 313 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:56 AM

RobotMartini said:

Restriction feels like a knee jerk reaction, since Bara TMP was forced to use this combo after Threat from the East was errata'ed last. While needing needing 1 less Maester and Citidal Law because of Bran makes it easier for Stark to abuse the combo -- and the combo is very painful -- it is a telegraphed play that takes 3 actions, which is an eternity for so much to go wrong:

+ Citedal Law can be canceled by Paper Shield and He Calls it Thinking and Finger Dance or discarded with confession

+ The Maester cant pay for Citedal Law if you use Nightmares or Burn him

+ Bran can be canceled by Blood Rider, Blanked by Nightmares or Burnt or death by payne'd or knelt with you killed the wrong dwarf

+ Threat can be cancelled by Outwit

+ Rule by Decree can backfire to the opponent's Much and More, and other Any Phase events (Nightmares/epic phases)

+ It doesn't work against Bara if they have TLS and puts Darkstar into play

+ Fear of Winter clogs it's advantage and allows a superior setup to wipe it in counter attack

+ Plot rotation decks can snipe it using city of soldiers or block it using burning bridges, search and detain and/or fortified position or protect their hand by using city of shadows to drop 2 shadows cards out of the hand.

+ At the Gates, Raven search, Family Duty Honor, and (much more difficult) the Prince's Plans all mitigate the loss

Even when the combo goes off flawlessly, the 'winner' has little left of his setup and, since his deck has to be stark maesters, he's either got a ton of weenies to maximize his own setup and chances to draw into the combo (and is weak against First Snow of Winter) or has fairly average characters as follow up, which means your own setup may hold the line. Yes, it is a very powerful effect but it's still quite fragile and, given enough exposure in the meta, should start getting identified and thwarted before it happens.

Mostly agree with all the potential interrupts, but HCiT cannot cancel Citadel Law. It's not a response. It can also be cancelled by seasick as long as the Stark player didn't setup a Narrow Sea.



#8 mdc273

mdc273

    Member

  • Members
  • 975 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:21 AM

I would assume the whole point of the restriction is that the card is not working as intended. When a card isn't working as intended, you remove it from the pool. You should then provide an alternative that does work as intended, but I don't know if a card like Threat from the East should have even been created in the first place. Assuming they don't recreate it, I would imagine they agree it wasn't good card design to begin with.

In my opinion, it isn't a matter of restricting an overpowered card. It's a matter of maintaining the design integrity of the game.



#9 Ratatoskr

Ratatoskr

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,581 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:24 AM

mdc273 said:

I would assume the whole point of the restriction is that the card is not working as intended. When a card isn't working as intended, you remove it from the pool. You should then provide an alternative that does work as intended, but I don't know if a card like Threat from the East should have even been created in the first place. Assuming they don't recreate it, I would imagine they agree it wasn't good card design to begin with.

In my opinion, it isn't a matter of restricting an overpowered card. It's a matter of maintaining the design integrity of the game.

He's defending the restriction of TftE! HE'S DAMON! GET HIM!



#10 dcdennis

dcdennis

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,376 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:27 AM

Ratatoskr said:

mdc273 said:

 

I would assume the whole point of the restriction is that the card is not working as intended. When a card isn't working as intended, you remove it from the pool. You should then provide an alternative that does work as intended, but I don't know if a card like Threat from the East should have even been created in the first place. Assuming they don't recreate it, I would imagine they agree it wasn't good card design to begin with.

In my opinion, it isn't a matter of restricting an overpowered card. It's a matter of maintaining the design integrity of the game.

 

 

He's defending the restriction of TftE! HE'S DAMON! GET HIM!

You sir, just won the internet. Thank you for making my day.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS