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FAQ 3.4


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#1 Ratatoskr

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

Can anybody explain this to me? I approve of different restricted lists for the two formats but WTF? TftE restricted for Joust? Conclave restricted for Melee? Furies except Stag off the list for Melee? I don't get it.



#2 Ratatoskr

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

Also, I really would've liked to see the whole "loses all keywords" mess addressed.



#3 playgroundpsychotic

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

I quite like the Fury change. Makes for more dynamic melee. I'm on the fence about Stag remaining on the list. It does have the potential for the biggest swing in power and Bara doesn't really need any help when it comes to gaining power.



#4 ktom

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:59 PM

Ratatoskr said:

Can anybody explain this to me?
Not definitively. You'd need to ask FFG.

Ratatoskr said:

TftE restricted for Joust?
"We have updated the Joust restricted list, adding Threat from the East. This was done to put a check upon some powerful hand denial combinations that have emerged, without completely removing these combos from the environment."

Ratatoskr said:

Conclave restricted for Melee? Furies except Stag off the list for Melee?
I would assume this is based on the "rush" emphasis in Melee. The Conclave tends to be cheaper on average in a Melee deck. The Fury plots, whose text is more likely to be applicable against someone in melee, encourage a level of interaction and deeper decision tree for challenges in Melee that they do not in Joust, but the "take control" for the Stag plot remains problematic for different reasons.



#5 Ratatoskr

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

ktom said:


"We have updated the Joust restricted list, adding Threat from the East. This was done to put a check upon some powerful hand denial combinations that have emerged, without completely removing these combos from the game"

 

Ah, that combo that the winner of that tourney in Spain employed. I had forgotten that. Still not sure about Conclave. Have they really had that much of an impact in Melee? Well, I don't really play Melee so I wouldn't know.



#6 alpha5099

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

Ratatoskr said:

Also, I really would've liked to see the whole "loses all keywords" mess addressed.

Which mess is that? Sorry, haven't been following the meta closely lately.



#7 ktom

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

I'm surprised no one is mentioning that Melee will now officially be Swiss-paired.



#8 Vaapad

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=18&efcid=4&efidt=712917 

alpha5099 said:

Ratatoskr said:

 

Also, I really would've liked to see the whole "loses all keywords" mess addressed.

 

 

Which mess is that? Sorry, haven't been following the meta closely lately.


"And for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons."

#9 Skowza

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

They added "missing" traits, but still didnt correct the other errors like "Dohraki"
I definitely approve of power-claim events on the melee list, it'll really change things up.  Not sure I like Fury of the Stag being restricted but the rest of the Furies being playable; I acknowledge that it can be more game changing than the others, but it seems pretty unfair to Bara.  And BotS unrestricted for melee?  It was added to the list for a good reason…



#10 mnBroncos

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

 did they take it down or something their support page is blank right now..



#11 ktom

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

Skowza said:

 Not sure I like Fury of the Stag being restricted but the rest of the Furies being playable; I acknowledge that it can be more game changing than the others, but it seems pretty unfair to Bara.
Possibly, but Bara tends to have an edge as the best House for rush in Melee, anyway. A little extra hobble for Bara in melee, based on their stated presumptions, makes some sense.



#12 RyanSD

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:40 PM

I'd like to thank whoever spearheaded the change in tie breaker rule. The old rule caused people with top notch SoS who didn't play anyone in the 4-2 bracket to miss the cut over people with low SoS that happened to beat one person in the 4-2 bracket, which seemed fundamentally wrong to me. I'm glad this has been changed and that people will be rewarded for better performances.



#13 imrahil327

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

ktom said:

I'm surprised no one is mentioning that Melee will now officially be Swiss-paired.

Yeah, I liked the TFTE change but this might be my favorite change of this round of FAQ/Tourney Rules.



#14 WWDrakey

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:37 AM

Actually, I really like what they did with the separate restricted lists for Melee and Joust. The cards behave very differently in those two environments, so it's only logical that different cards are restricted.

Have to love the way they are trying to now use the restricted list to stop Melee from degenerating into a very short rush competition. That's what most of the restrictions there were aimed at, I think. Including the one on Fury of the Stag, which is a really easy way to obtain a huge chunk of power by stealing a power-laden character from Targ/Martell. None of the other Furies work as an accelerant, so it's logical that they are not restricted. 

Similarly I think that Conclave and TMP were restricted together to stop Conclave-Rush decks like the ones that dominated GenCon 2011? Those haven't really taken a hit by many of the previous restrictions/erratas, and can be pretty damn fast, since non-kneeling (We Light the Way, Game of Thrones,  renown characters are key in Melee.

I think the attempt at trying to slow down Melee and make it less Rush-y is best seen in the restrictions of Make an Example and Superior claim… coupled with the un-restrction of Burning on the Sands, which is a pretty brutal card in stopping another player from winning in Melee. That one speaks volumes.

Seems like FFG doesn't want Melee to be too fast. I like it. 

Threat from the East looks to be purely aimed at the deck that won in Spain. I guess FFG didn't like any deck that leaves your opponent with 1 card in hand at the beginning of the game to exist… this is probably related to wanting to keep KotHH viable? Since it was able to win in a field of ~80 players, it was probably pretty competitive to boot…

The added traits are probably to ensure that all character/location cards have at least *some* trait? Did a quick search through all the locations, I think everything else has one. Not sure if they missed any characters.

Just guessing though, naturally.



#15 Stag Lord

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:53 AM

Yeah - agree with drakey here. I am a rush player at heart, but melee was pushing the envelope of late. too much non interaction - dropping a whole chain of events to basically put power on cards off of one challenge. Just getting a hair too fast to be fun. Thsi should reign it in nciely

And Fury of the Stag HAS to stay restricted in melee. its an auto inculde otherwise and probably way too swingy in the format. barathon does NOT need the help in the high target environment.

 

Good FAQ. Feels like the game is (mostly) ina pretty good spot rigth now. still don't think the maester thing si working, but "whatever" at this point.



#16 ktom

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:25 AM

Stag Lord said:

Yeah - agree with drakey here. I am a rush player at heart, but melee was pushing the envelope of late. too much non interaction - dropping a whole chain of events to basically put power on cards off of one challenge. Just getting a hair too fast to be fun. Thsi should reign it in nciely

And Fury of the Stag HAS to stay restricted in melee. its an auto inculde otherwise and probably way too swingy in the format. barathon does NOT need the help in the high target environment.

The next step in this logic, of course, is that by not restricting the (non-Bara) Furies in Melee, you are inviting more interaction, or at least more choices for more interaction.



#17 alpha5099

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

The Fury de-restriction for Melee is fantastic, and I have to agree with everyone else on how much interaction it can potentially add to a game. Most of the time in Joust, the Furies are really just 5/7/1 plots; assuming an even distribution of houses, you'll probably only get to use the Fury's ability in a third of your match-ups. It's much, much more likely you'll see a Fury-able opponent in Melee, and heck, you've got a decent chance to get a match-up with multiple Fury-able opponents.

I'll be interested to see if the non-Bara Furies become Melee auto-includes. 5/7/1 are pretty phenomenal stats. But given that they're all House specific which reflect the House's flavor and strengths should keep it interesting.

 



#18 orion_kurnous

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:24 PM

 I dont understand why furies are restricted in just and not in melee, when furies was restrincted i undesrtood, but now, there are many plot that in my opinion are better than the furies, furies will be unrestricted in just.

Threat from the east restricted? i think this its ridiculous, there are another cards that combining winth this plot would be restricted.(laugthing storm)

In my opinion this faq are very poorly, and they didnt change greyscale to only house targa or baratheon…..



#19 ktom

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:45 PM

orion_kurnous said:

In my opinion this faq are very poorly, and they didnt change greyscale to only house targa or baratheon…..
Is there any evidence that it actually needs to be? Where are the broken Stark, Lannister, Greyjoy, or Martell decks that justify this?

Other than theory and blind reaction to the spoiler, where's the proof that Greyscale needs any errata at all?



#20 -Istaril

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

 Onion - your posts have consistently baffled me… grammatically, spelling-wise and content-wise - but I'll bite.

The furies are essentially auto-includes in Joust if they stay off the restricted list, something FFG has never really liked (although they've responded to it with various speeds *cough* Meera *cough*). I think they may still be auto-includes in Melee, but they spice up the match because of their house-specific interactions in ways that may well make the game more interesting. I don't know if they're right, but I'm sure we'll find out come Worlds. For now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Threat from the East's restriction is pretty strange, but the general consensus seems to be not that it's because of its interaction with TLS - which, while annoying to the opponent, isn't devastating, but an attempt to counter a very specific combo that would leave your opponent with 1 card in hand. They figured that was a bit much, and despite the several pieces needed to make this one work, decided to stomp on it. FFG historically hasn't been a fan of combos where luck of the draw can determine the match on turn 1. They had originally hoped the re-wording of the plot would be enough… but it wasn't, so for now they're just keeping TftE on the restricted list. As far as I can tell, this doesn't even stop the combo, it just stops the combo from being run with TMP, which helped the deck thin itself and make the combo more reliable.

As for Greyscale… why on earth would it have to be House Targ/Bara only? I haven't seen it played anywhere else, but a 2 cost condition attachment doing some neat things in Dayne or Lanni decks really doesn't bother me a whole bunch. 

Split Melee/Joust lists sounds great to me. Swiss pairing for melee and the change to scoring ties vs modified losses make sense. Thundering Calvary's fix is a good change. Do you really think the whole FAQ "are very poorly"?

The attempt to slow down melee is one I can get behind, but it seems to me that the restrictions aren't really enough. The list seems too small to significantly hamper the faster rushes, and so while a Bara rush might lose two of three event choices (NA champion ran NE, SupCla and Make an Example), other cards that really sped up many a rush deck (RotO Melissandre, for instance, or "non-kneeling" plots) remain untouched. While I don't really want to neuter "Rush" as an option in melee, given that control is at a significant disadvantage due to the abundance of targets to control and rush is at a significant advantage due to the abundance of unopposed challenges available… I think this first step is only a small one in shifting the balance.






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