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#1 kamacausey

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

 I want to suggest that the first turn penalty be adjusted slightly. I agree that the first player should not get a story phase because that wouldn't be fair to the other player but I still think the first player should be getting 2 cards instead of 1. One thing I noticed at nationals was no one chose to go first when they won the die roll. If they won they always chose to go second. Their really isn't an advantage to going first IMHO. Yes you get the chance to play your cards first but it doesn't really have that big of a difference because you have access to cards like black dog and master of myths, etc… What is everyone else's opinion on this?



#2 COCLCG

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:33 AM

depends on your deck really and how its built. some love to go first, especially negotium decks to get to the 3 domain first. so do decks with cursed skull in the initial draw. whats not to like ? taking out their first character and having a turn head start in some cases. rush decks love first turn as well. a syndicate deck punching out a patsy and an intimidation opponents first turn. if you can get past the hurdle, as it can be one, you're essentially a resource ahead of the other, so in a lot of cases i prefer going first to get the better characters out earlier. i just make sure i have enough 1 cost stallers in there to cope with the handicap. oh, and dont forget sacrificial offerings. thats a first turn gift. it all depends on the draw you get really as to whether first or second is the better option, and really, in an even playing field, thats all the game comes down to, who's deck is shuffled the best. it is essentially a game that has components of luck, as any game does. but i digress……..



#3 .Zephyr.

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

 I prefere going first, because of resource advantage. I like expensive cards and going first i get them sooner. And I don't rush so I wouldnt benefit that much from story phase, usually I'l only play Negotium first turn, meybe some priestess of bubastis :P Maybe in current meta of playng so many strong "pay 1" cards its not that important and 1 card advantage is better, idk.

If you are concerned about tournament balance you need a big amount of Win% data and see is there corelation with going second. If players prefer something but it doesnt influence win% there is no reason for change. Also having this addditional card might swing it the other side more than its currently biased (if it is), so its not obvious will it bring better or worse balance (even assuming it's the right direction).



#4 COCLCG

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

oh. and first turn with priestess of bubastis, hungry dark young, ya-te-veo with a 1 domain to spare. ill take THAT first turn any day !!



#5 dboeren

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:29 AM

I usually prefer going second.  Drawing only one card seems to really make your resourcing decisions hard and I always feel like I'm having to give up something really important.  Also, when I go first I feel like sometimes I miss out on come-into-play effects on my 1st turn characters.  This is deck dependent of course, but for instance at Gencon I was playing Silver Twilight/Shub and dropping a Protector of Secrets on my first turn with no opposing characters to affect would have been annoying.

It can definitely differ based on your deck though.



#6 .Zephyr.

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:22 AM

 Now that i think of it going second has a nice advantage of responding to what your opponent played. Playing first does make you quite voulnerable to what you opponent plays, especially destruction. Maybe this is the problem, not card disadvantage.

On the other hand in CoC you're not guaranteed to have equal number of turns, a game might end during first player turn - then you get to draw one card more during entire game, if it ends during opponents turn he gets one more during game.

But having your characters removed with cards like Many angled thing or stuff like Sacrificial offerings during ferst turn when opponent has no table and will get his domians refreshed anyway is quite a pain.

It might be fun to test some houserule variants, like having such destruction baned till 2nd turn of first player or sth idk. Maybe this one card would compensate for this… or overcompensate, hard to tell without much testing as i find this quite subtle.



#7 AUCodeMonkey

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:06 AM

Going first can have its advantages.

One of my favorite opening cards to use is You Know Too Much. Sure you get to draw 1 card as a penalty for going first… but you make your opponent draw ZERO instead. The early card advantage is incredible and difficult for someone to overcome.

Also, if you're playing a weenie rush deck and you utilize The Seventy Steps, you may want to go first as well. I almost always wanted to go first when I was running an Agency/Hastur rush deck.

Usually, I want to go second now. I run with Initiate of Huang Hun and a Dreamlands Fanatic. It's a whole lot of fun when I bounce folks and get a 2-3 character swing early on.



#8 jhaelen

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

AUCodeMonkey said:

One of my favorite opening cards to use is You Know Too Much.
What set is this card from? It doesn't seem to show up on CardDB.



#9 COCLCG

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:22 PM

haha. that was a first turn trick i used to play on kriss when we used to play. you know too much SUCKS first turn. and i loved drawing it and going first ( as long as i had a weenie or 2 to go along with it ). im not too up with what sets are what but it has the order symbol on it so either the twilight boxed set or the twilight AP's. funny cause i just checked DB in the deckbuilder and it comes up under TOosT so im guessing the boxed set card no. 48



#10 Danigral

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:31 AM

jhaelen said:

AUCodeMonkey said:

One of my favorite opening cards to use is You Know Too Much.

What set is this card from? It doesn't seem to show up on CardDB.

 

I'd pm darksbane about it. He's pretty quick to fix errors.

Here's the link to the image: javascript:void(0);/*1350999150368*/



#11 dboeren

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:57 AM

If you filter to Silver Twilight Events and scroll down, you'll see it.

Yeah, I can imagine something like that (or Byakhee Attack) would suck to be hit with on your first turn.  Of course, the flip side is that you aren't getting out a 2-cost character so your opponent may get a little ahead at the stories.



#12 AUCodeMonkey

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

I'm not disagreeing that generally it's superior to go second, but there are some definite advantages in certain cases. Any Silver Twilight deck will probably want to include You Know Too Much as a stunter for their opponents. Killing an initial draw reaps serious long term benefits.



#13 jhaelen

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

AGoT DC Meta said:

 

I'd pm darksbane about it. He's pretty quick to fix errors.

Here's the link to the image: javascript:void(0);/*1350999150368*/

Ah, thanks.

Actually, I recall that darksbane mentioned a known problem with the search function: If you enable full-text search it will filter out 'common' words, like 'and' or 'in'. Apparently that's the reason the card didn't show up for me.

After disabling Full-Text search the card is found.



#14 Danigral

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:17 AM

 LOL. I wouldn't put "know" and "much" in the same category as pronouns. But hey, this is good to know! Now I can finally search for "gug". :)






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