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Ship upgrades at creation?


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#1 uuto

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

 

Hello all

I have a rules question that has been driving me mad! Is it possible to purchase ship upgrades when you create your ship or do you have to wait untill you can make a accusation role? If it is possible can some one point me to the relevant rules ive missed?

Thanks



#2 HappyDaze

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

 It is possible to spend the free starting Acquisition to gain an Upgrade, but IIRC, only Crew Improvements can be taken in this manner due to Availability. Remember that there is no Scale modifier applied for Upgrades.


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#3 uuto

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:51 PM

 Thanks for the reply, I guess my ship will just have to put up with a living crew untill I get around to replacing them with something more reliable!



#4 gladius

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

uuto said:

 Thanks for the reply, I guess my ship will just have to put up with a living crew untill I get around to replacing them with something more reliable!

Add a Crew Reclamation Facility. That way, you can save time and resources, and convert the crew you already have!



#5 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:56 AM

Crew Reclamation also equals murder servitors.



#6 Errant

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:35 PM

 Eh. At most I'd treat Crew Reclamation Chambers as a +10 bonus to acquire or repair a murder servitor upgrade.



#7 Fresnel

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:57 AM

HappyDaze said:

 It is possible to spend the free starting Acquisition to gain an Upgrade, but IIRC, only Crew Improvements can be taken in this manner due to Availability. Remember that there is no Scale modifier applied for Upgrades.

Careful now…

Like other acquisitions the PF modifier for starship components comes from three factors.

Availability: Table 8-8

Starship Component Acquisitions: Table 9-36 (this is the equivalent of Scale for Components)

Acquisition Quality: Table 9-37 further rules in Into the Storm.

 



#8 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:32 AM

Fresnel said:

HappyDaze said:

 

 It is possible to spend the free starting Acquisition to gain an Upgrade, but IIRC, only Crew Improvements can be taken in this manner due to Availability. Remember that there is no Scale modifier applied for Upgrades.

 

 

Careful now…

Like other acquisitions the PF modifier for starship components comes from three factors.

Availability: Table 8-8

Starship Component Acquisitions: Table 9-36 (this is the equivalent of Scale for Components)

Acquisition Quality: Table 9-37 further rules in Into the Storm.

 

Starship Upgrades are NOT the same as Starship Components. The rules are not precisely the same. For Acquisition of Starship Components, see Battlefleet Koronus for the most up-to-date rules.


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#9 Fresnel

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:05 AM

 Sorry you'll have to give me chapter and verse on this. I see no reason to ignore Table 9-36. You might argue that an upgrade isn't a component, but I naturally inferred that the catagory modification would still apply. War component are far more expensive than Structural, so naturally upgrades for War components are more expensive than Structural.

Unless you can point the text that is explicit that Table 9-36 is ignored for upgrades…  



#10 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:51 PM

Fresnel said:

 Sorry you'll have to give me chapter and verse on this. I see no reason to ignore Table 9-36. You might argue that an upgrade isn't a component, but I naturally inferred that the catagory modification would still apply. War component are far more expensive than Structural, so naturally upgrades for War components are more expensive than Structural.

Unless you can point the text that is explicit that Table 9-36 is ignored for upgrades…  

Play it how you want. If you need explicit proof that a non-Component doesn't follow the a table set specifically for Components, then you can find it (or not) on your own. I really don't care what you do.


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#11 Fresnel

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:56 AM

 Hi,

I have given this issue further consideration. You are right that, strictly RAW, Table 9-36 only applies to Starship Components, not to Starship Component Upgrades. This exception to the normal use of the Scale Acquisition Modifiers is given in the first paragraph of p274. No other type of Acquisition (afaik) is excluded from the Scale Modifiers given in Table 9-35.

Into the Storm is silent on whether Starship Component Upgrades should use Table 9-36 as the Scale modifier, therefore the RAW must be interpreted as using the standard Scale Acquisition Modifiers.

Therefore Upgrading a single Macrobattery will be subject to the 'Negligible' (+30) modifier - not the 'War' (-30) modifier. Like it or not this is currently RAW.

 



#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

Fresnel said:

Into the Storm is silent on whether Starship Component Upgrades should use Table 9-36 as the Scale modifier, therefore the RAW must be interpreted as using the standard Scale Acquisition Modifiers.

 

Really? I thought Into the Storm was pretty clear on this.

Upgrades are purchased in the same manner as any other
Acquisition, and can be obtained for any ship. There are
bonuses for Craftmanship for upgrades. However, although
a player may only purchase one starship upgrade per
Acquisition Test, there is no bonus for doing so. Essentially,
the only modifier to an Acquisition Test to purchase a ship
upgrade is the rarity of said upgrade and the craftmanship of
the upgrade. 
- Into the Storm, page 162.

To call something RAW, you should start by reading the rules as written.


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#13 Fresnel

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

 Well that puts the issue to bed.

Thanks.



#14 Zenshi

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:53 PM

More of a house rule but you could use table 1-6 in BFK to generate a point cost for an upgrade.

Servitor Crew (Very Rare) would be an essential component that cost 2SP. Good Q (+1 step, table 1-4 BFK) would cost 3 and Best Q (+2 step) would cost 4.

Most upgrades would be Supplimental upgrades and would have a higher cost.

We use this in my group and it seems to work well for us.






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