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Balance of the Lathe Worlds Upgrades


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#1 Darth Smeg

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:03 AM

So our friends the CogBoys got a bunch of new toys in the Lathe Worlds.

But I'm wondering what your experiences are with these options. As thech-priests tool up with enhanced potentia coils, subskin armour and a few levels of The Flesh is Weak they become increasingly powerful. Does it all work out? Are there balance issues here?

On a related issue, how do you treat the "Tech-Priest only" Availability? I understand it means "only available to tech priest", but it doesn't say HOW available for them.

Do they all get them if they want'em? If they have to Inquire for them, what sort of difficulty is applicable? Are they Common for the CogBoys? Rare? 


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#2 Saldre

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

Suffice to say that the new book completely and utterly spoils Tech-priests :P 

It doesn't help that mine is already pretty high ranking- but the Shield and Barrier talents blocking all damage, combined with his High (70s) toughness, machine trait, armors AND shield have made him virtually unkillable by any "Normal" means. 

You're going to need to find something to keep him busy during a fight- preferably extended tech related actions- or else his tanking and damage dealing skills put him on a new level compared to the rest of the party, I find.

For the upgrades, he hasn't gotten a chance to get any of them- but conceivably speaking, I would hand them out as rewards for ranking up, for returning technology from a mission, or for successfully completing some hidden mechanicus objective. In other words, mostly as reward. The tech-priest wouldn't "test" for it.  



#3 Santiago

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

 Well, at one point or another the TP will meet its match….otherwise introduce the vile Nurgle Daemon imported from AD&D…

The Rust Monster!!!

No realy, High TB and AP characters can expect to be the prime target for heavy weaponry and if that fails, mental or warp attacks.



#4 Saldre

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

Heavy weapons are deflected by the shield- and mental attacks by his Inhuman and unnatural nature, as a warp-touched individual. 

Luckily, I've fallen back on Warp-weapons, which I've ruled bypassed all defenses (That don't specifically protect Vs daemon, warp weapons or Psychic attacks). 



#5 Darth Smeg

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Well any munchkin worth his salt will have inscribed Hexagramatic Wards on his Dragonscale Armour… 


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#6 Louisp

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:41 PM

 As I read them most of these upgrades are only available in the "lathe" system so unless your campaign is based in there I can't see him getting access to the equipment and as for the talents I like to think that they were developed in the system too so unless the tech priest sees it in action he wouldn't even know it exists. (flesh is weak is exempt).

 

Just my thoughts



#7 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

The book doesn't really specify that the new equipment only comes from the three central 'Lathe Worlds' (Lathe-Het, Lathe-Hesh and Lathe Hadd). Additionally 'the lathes' is a common term that covers all the Calixian Forge Worlds. There are weapons that are specific to certain worlds - hence the reason we have patterns (Belecane-Pattern Stasis Mines, and so on) - but you're not restricted to only getting those specific items if you happen to be on three specific worlds within the entire Sector.


Also from experience none of the Integrated Weapons have ever been a problem for my players. They dangerous to be sure, and the Lathe Las-Blaster is a very dangerous gun, but not once over the past couple of years have they said 'We're all going to die because he has an Integrated-[Insert Weapon Here]'. They've even pilfered a few that they use every now and again, especially the phased-plasma and mass driver, using them whenever they can get them charged.

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Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#8 Darth Smeg

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

I was thinking along the lines of the Enhanced Potentia Coil, which along with the various Luminen Talents give the Tech-priests some pretty impressive Offensive and Defensive capabilites.

But let's say our Enginseer is currently on an appropriate Forge World, and want's to get his hand on an Enhanced Potentia Coil. He has the thrones, and the Availability says "Adeptus Mechanicus Only".

Well, he qualifies.

So… that's it? Pay up and enjoy? He simply knows where to find the "Ad-Mech Store"? No Inquiry? No test?


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#9 vehzeel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

What level is the Tech-Priest? I'd say he'd be at least 6-8 to be able to get that upgrade, and then ONLY if he has done something to further the cause of the Mechanicum and/or been orthodox in his ways and/or pure enough in body and mind. Maybe set a cap at 10-20 CP and 30-40 IP?



#10 Face Eater

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:52 AM

Also, how much of this stuff is Techpriest specific, i suspect sub-dermal armour isn't but enhanced potential coils and stuff will be.

 

 



#11 jabberwoky

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:01 AM

I had also asked the availability question for Adeptus Mechanicus items (because I had a Rogue Trader explorator who wanted a jet-pack bolted onto his back).  The best answers came down to making the items Rare or Extremely Rare and only available on Forge Worlds (or with the permission of a high-ranking Magos-Errant).



#12 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 02:05 PM

I’ve always viewed it that these items are always available, but only ever on Forge Worlds and to members of the AdMech. So whereas a Scum might have to see if a particular type of Lasgun was in stock, a Tech-Priest can simply request an [insert cybernetic here] and they’d fetch it for him.

[Note: This is not an official answer, just my own personal belief for how the ‘AdMech Only’ availability works]

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Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#13 Darth Smeg

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

While I see the reasoning, that would make it very easy for a Tech-Priests with sufficient cash to become very powerful. 

We've reached the situation in my campaign where the combination of implants, talents and gear make our TechPriest virtually indestructible.


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#14 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:55 AM

Darth Smeg said:

While I see the reasoning, that would make it very easy for a Tech-Priests with sufficient cash to become very powerful. 

We've reached the situation in my campaign where the combination of implants, talents and gear make our TechPriest virtually indestructible.

The solution is politics, bureaucracy and techno-babble.

As there are countless different sub-groups within the AdMech, availability (or the speed at which something can be obtained) would have to depend on the character's standing with that particular sub-group. If the character is well-known and well-regarded then sure, no problem. But if the PC has travelled to a given Forge World for the first time, perhaps some of his litanies mark him as different and as such, the tech-priests are reluctant to provide him with such sacred equipment. Maybe they don't refuse him outright but rather they require a complex and protracted interview process in which he is questioned extensively about his reason for wanting a given 'special' cybernetic instead of a more 'traditional' one. Some AdMech may not be happy to gift such technology to servants of the Inquisition.

Then there is also the issue of payment: you can ask the player for thrones, but much better to ask for favours or exchanges. As an acolyte, the PC will be privy to much information that the AdMech would be interested in getting their hands on. Perhaps the gear is available but the 'cost' in information is uncomfortably high: the cybernetic device is installed but the tech-priest remains uncomfortable about having divulged certain sensitive secrets. What if his inquisitor finds out?  Would the tech-priest be willing to 'betray' his Inquisitor for the sake of the cybernetic enhancement? 

Also, "available" doesn't mean right away: there are forms to fill out which then need to be processed, permissions to obtain. There might be a process by which the tech-priest's circuits are 'recalibrated' in order to ensure the right amount of power distribution ot power the new devices / not overload. Some tech-priests might be concerned exixting cybers will interact with the old one in some sort of dangerous fashion.The technology might be available but will need to be brought in from another Lathe World. This could lead to a lot of waiting. Not to mention: it takes time to operate and add the new cybernetics, as well as time to recuperate from the procedures - time which the acolytes may not always have available.

A good rule of thumb which has worked wonders in our game: the tech-priest is generally able to get what they want assuming they're on a suitable world: few issues for a Forge World, a little harder on a Hive world or 'civilized' Imperial world, with increasing difficulty for other worlds. Depending on what is being requested and where we are, it might take a session or three or more to get the cybernetic. It at least tends to space out the upgrades and makes it more interesting than just writing down new stuff on the character sheet.



#15 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

My main issue regarding the availability of cybernetic implants to AdMech members is that the Adeptus Mechanicus is a religious organisation. The higher status a Tech-Priest reaches within the organisation, the better cybernetics he can get his hands on. So in my opinion, AdMech only cybernetics should not require any Throne Gelt, but a certain rank needs to be reached before it becomes available to the devotee of the Omnissiah. (Of course, AdMech specific missions - such as hunting down hereteks - may also grant "free" cybernetics.)

As for very durable Tech-Priests… aye, in good munchkin hands, a Tech-Priest can become the worst nightmare of technically everything. Dragonscale Armor, Armor Monger, Hexagrammatic Wards, Exemplar of Metal, Subskin Armor (skin? what skin?), Luminen Barrier, Enhanced Potentia Coil and anything else that might suit your fancy. This will undoubtedly turn your Tech-Priest into a living tank (TB and AP around 20 vs all attacks, including warp, plus instant force field). 

 

 



#16 BangBangTequila

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:45 AM

 Don't forget a Good Hermetic Infusion. Regeneration? Why yes, please.



#17 Macharias the Mendicant

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

BangBangTequila said:

 Don't forget a Good Hermetic Infusion. Regeneration? Why yes, please.

Wish there was a "like" function.



#18 Zakalwe

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:32 PM

People prefer the familiar. In the kinds of games I run, such a monster would be the elephant in the room that everyone was pretending wasn't there.  Almost no one would talk to such an obviously heavily modified TP.  In fact, in many situations such a cyber-psycho TP would be downright unwelcome.

"My humble apologies most gacious servant of the Omnissiah, but policy is that there are no weapons allowed, I'd lose my job you see",  turns to the Scum PC "please make it understand, I've got a wife and kids to feed".

or

"We don't serve their kind in here".

 

Interrogator Z 






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