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Can Jump packs and Marine Scout Armour be combined?


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#1 alexe74

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

Just that really…

 

Cheers

Alex E



#2 KommissarK

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:35 AM

As far as I know, theres nothing that explicitly disallows it. But I've never seen a miniature for it, it seems to be entirely counter to the role of a scout (hard to be stealthy when your jetting through the air). The shock of the landing could be too much, the heat from the thrust could become an issue, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't allow it.



#3 venkelos

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:33 AM

^^ I would agree.

Assault Marines, to me, fill a niche of "hit'em hard and fast, knock'em down, and finish them off. If they don't die, jump back, out of counter-attack range, and slam'em again." The protection of Power Armor, and the types of weapons it will support, seem better. Yeah, jump packs might make Scouts more mobile, and maneuverable, but they also make them less stealthy, as these aren't mastercraft Eldar jump packs, but Inmperium-made rocket engines, roaring with the Emperor's fury. Their lighter armor, to me, is because they haven't earned the ful suit honors, yet, and because it is easier to sneak, and SCOUT in it.

So for me, I would say no, like so many other things, the Scout hasn't earned the right to bear a jet pack. His armor doesn't really seem to fit with what Space Marines often use them for, either. If your DW Space Marine has already passed that milestone, and still CHOOSES to wear Scout Armor, for specific missions, he still won't wear the pack, because it's just not what Space Marines do, and they are tradition-driven men. People could easily say I'm wrong, but if it were my game, this is probably what i would run with, just because.



#4 Decessor

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:09 AM

The jump packs are generally attached to the backpack power unit on astartes power armour. I'd be inclined to say no to it on scout armour.



#5 Thebigjul

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:26 AM

no jump pack for scout, first because it need a backpack to fix, secondly because what the use of stealth when leaving behind a tail of fire and a large roar.



#6 Zappiel

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

what they all said……but…..if you need to infiltrate a team of scouts onto an area, some sort of jump pack/parachute/glider system would seem to be required…..this would eliminate the standard jump and flight packs, but something could be devised, me thinks….perhaps some background to this question might help:  i.e. why do you ask?  Do you need to land a bunch of scouts behind enemy lines?  or do you want the combo for some other reason?

 



#7 Face Eater

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:22 PM

Zappiel said:

what they all said……but…..if you need to infiltrate a team of scouts onto an area, some sort of jump pack/parachute/glider system would seem to be required…..this would eliminate the standard jump and flight packs, but something could be devised, me thinks….perhaps some background to this question might help:  i.e. why do you ask?  Do you need to land a bunch of scouts behind enemy lines?  or do you want the combo for some other reason?

 

A grav chute like IG drop troops.



#8 Thebigjul

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:39 PM

Exactly grav chute, and better then zexpected you will find them in the FFG books.

Don't remember where but they are.



#9 alexe74

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

Cool.  Thanks for the opinions.  It was, as one of you suggested, for a combat drop by full fledged marines who need to sneak and recon the enemy.  Grav chute was an opition but I was considering a fast drop might be needed to avoid radar, AA  etc.

 

Thanks again,

AlexE



#10 herichimo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

Have the DW ship tether a bunch of meterors, tow em into planet. Shoot off a drop pod with meteor shower. Scouts then blow up and slag the drop pod after landing.

Fast, stealthy, and (relatively) safe.

Grav chutes are good, so are parachutes. Jump packs + scout armour = no any time of the week, for so many reasons I won't even bother listing.

A human body isn't very visible to early warning radars.
[sciency stuff]
Different types of radar are used for different purposes.

Imagine:

An early warning radar is like a very wide angle spotlight.

The targeting radars used in actual offensive weapons (patriots[rl], S-300s[rl], and a Hydra[40k]) are like super fine laser pointers.

Using a laser pointer as a flashlight to find something in a giant field is pointless, you'll use the spotlight. But the spotlight is being used to search the whole field and only sees the target for one second every ten seconds. But you can now tell the guy with the laser pointer where the target is, who then points the beam at it keeping it in sight continuously. Current stealth technology is designed to defeat the early warning radars (spotlight). Vehicles using it (stealth) are still easily tracked by targeting radars, but the targeting radars can't find the stealth vehicle without ques from the early warning radars.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.



#11 Lucrosium Malice

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:40 AM

HALO it is. High Altitude Low Opening.

A full fledged marine in scout armor with a grav chute should be able to do a stealth insertion from a thunderhawk in the upper atmosphere.

Not to mention the coolness aspect of the mission. Grab shotguns with some of the new ammo rounds. Would make for a great game.



#12 Zenoth16

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:00 AM

herichimo said:

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

G.I. JOE!!!!

 

Grave Chutes are in RoB pg.144



#13 Kasatka

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:32 AM

Grav Chutes are teh awesomes. For a little requisition they basically allow your team to infiltrate into the mission zone wherever they want and, while they will still have to provide or secure exfiltration, this can make the whole world of difference in some scenarios.

Grav chutes, those nifty minefield kits, stalker boltguns (and the space wolf scout silenced bolt pistols), non-chain or power weapons (for the silent takedowns), and a healthy mix of stealth skills amongst the players can create far more fun and tension than just jumping into the midst of a horde and shooting everything up.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#14 Adeptus-B

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:42 AM

I have a question about Scout Armour that's been nagging me for while now; might as well post it here rather than start a new thread:

Why no helmet?

I want to run a stealthy infiltration mission at some point in the forseeable future, one where the Killteam is assigned Scout Armour (from Rites of Battle)- partly as a change of pace, partly as an excuse to trot out some new miniatures. Half my players have Korvus armour, so they will not be thrilled about loosing the silly Agility bonus their armour confers; I expect they will also protest the loss of auto-senses, and head protection in general. Any suggestions as to what I should tell them? Other than "No helmet with Scout armour is the long-standing 40K convention" (which is perfectly satisfting to me, but probably not to my players)?



#15 Decessor

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

Power armour helmets won't work disconnected from the rest of the suit. So those helmets are right out.



#16 Thebigjul

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

I believe that if scout armor do n ot have helmet it is because 4 AP flak on the head is quite irrevelant for what the SM scout are going to fight.

Secondly, I presumed that also because when Sm wore scout armor they are in teraining and are learning to use and to thrust their genetic enhancement and test their stamina. So the helmetless armor make sense.

Thirdly, even if it seems quite illogical, SM cjhapter do not care a lot with the survival of their scout… Look at ht emission given to them, the weapons at their disposal and their attrition rate… It is strange when looking at how manyè times a SM need to grown up but none the less. It is the survival of the fittest.



#17 herichimo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:55 AM

Adeptus-B said:

I have a question about Scout Armour that's been nagging me for while now; might as well post it here rather than start a new thread:

Why no helmet?

I want to run a stealthy infiltration mission at some point in the forseeable future, one where the Killteam is assigned Scout Armour (from Rites of Battle)- partly as a change of pace, partly as an excuse to trot out some new miniatures. Half my players have Korvus armour, so they will not be thrilled about loosing the silly Agility bonus their armour confers; I expect they will also protest the loss of auto-senses, and head protection in general. Any suggestions as to what I should tell them? Other than "No helmet with Scout armour is the long-standing 40K convention" (which is perfectly satisfting to me, but probably not to my players)?

You can't "un-assign" a marine's power armour. A marine's armour is a part of his body, it belongs to him as much as his second heart belongs to him. I can understand some missions necessitating scout armour. Give your players a choice which armour to use, recommended scout or power armour. When they choose their power armour for power-gaming reasons have them get found out pretty early, the target beats feet, they get surrounded by infinite enemies and a large number of elites, almost (or some of them killed), and the mission fails. At the recap make it obvious the power armour gave you away and maybe next time when a mission calls for scout armour they'll take it.

Though I will be honest the above is pretty harsh. I wouldn't be amiss to making the mission an auto-fail unless the PA equipped marines pass numerous -40 to -60 tests.

 

It is mentioned in normal 40k background and in FFG DW background descriptions space marines wearing scout armour will bring visors and the like to replicate some of the functions of their normal helmets. I believe such visors (or the guidelines for them) are in RoB.



#18 Face Eater

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:36 AM

 It's possible to get jump packs for non powered armored troops, there's one listed in Dark Heresy, but this isn't going to be the same as the ones that Assault Marines (as previous people have said), due to the power required, the weight and the power supply.

BUT I can't see that they are likely to be available generally in DW, there is a bit of a clash of specifications, giving some one the much lighter easier to stealth armor and then putting a super obvious rockets on the back of them.

 That being said, I can imagine some chapters that are willing to blast their neophrite scouts into melee on the jump packs (perhaps the Doom Eagles) but that would only be because the scouts are not yet worthy of wearing Astartes Power Armour. Not that we'll ever see that on TT.

And as has been said, if it's just to land on a planet from altitude then the much quieter and darker Grav Chutes seems much a much better choice. So much so that I can see that working in TT and the Raven Guard (as well as others) would be screaming for it as an option.



#19 Adeptus-B

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:16 AM

Decessor said:

Power armour helmets won't work disconnected from the rest of the suit. So those helmets are right out.

Sure, power armour helmets won't work with unpowered scout armour- but why no carapace helmet? I'm pretty sure my players will ask for them…

Thebigjul said:


I believe that if scout armor do not have helmet it is because 4 AP flak on the head is quite irrevelant for what the SM scout are going to fight.

If it's irrelevant for the head, it would be irrelevant for every other location, too.

So, I'm guessing that I should just let them have carapace helmets if they opt for scout armour (I suppose I could glue extra helmets from the Cadian frame to their belts on the miniatures) and just chock it up to "Not everything in the RPG works like it does in the Tabletop game"…?



#20 Decessor

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

I had another thought. The power armour helmets include autosenses. One of the lesser noted features of autosenses is that it compensates for the loss of vision and hearing that wearing a fully enclosed helmet would normally entail. So, a scout wearing a fully enclosed helmet that isn't powered and lacks autosenses would be hard pressed to do their job of scouting as their senses would be impaired.






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