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#1 Cobramax76

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:10 AM

Ive been mulling over the ideas now and finally begun to integrate some of the ideas of the all but lost squat tech from their starships into the existing campaign ( didnt really have a choice since ive all but outlawed tech-priest characters and navigators for my groups ships ( using other methods of FTL travel safer and faster ( and more quietly ) than the traditional methods..courtesy of the RT dynasty head being a wealthy noble Inquisitor in process of trying to deal with issues on multiple fronts.  lol ) ) ..Bottom line is…I am looking at creating Squat tech pieces of equipment and ship hulls for the squats.  everything from drive engines to weapons to hulls and all points in between.  

As best as i can find the squats never produced psyker types…which means that they never had navigators and thereby…no longer able to sustain the warp drives originally used to get the miners to the planetary systems and asteroids they were supposed to be mining before the coming of old night.  Which means…they created alternative means of FTL based travel that dont depend on navigators or the warp….safer and better than current warp engines ( yet another reason the navis nobilite would team with the mechanicus to destroy the squats ( everyone knows the mechanicus hated the squats because they 1 wouldnt give over their STCs to them and 2 didnt have the same reverence for the machines ( IE they didnt beleive in the BS of an omnisiah ) 2 afronts that the mechanicus has always punished with death in past..and the navigator houses do all in their power to maintain their stranglehold on interstellar commerce via use of the navigator necessity…BOTH aspects that are in themselves heretical…since the squats were allies of the imperium and fine with everything to begin with …therefore…

I am interested in who/how many would like to see/use a full listing of squat ships/hulls and all the needed and optional equipment for them for their RT games ( no i really truly DONT give a rats *ss about what FFG thinks on this since it IS a optional houserule i AM using ). If i get enough interest in it then i will either post a copy of it here and or at the Dark Reign site for all to use.

As a standard im going to redo all equipment considered archeotech that they shouldve had access to in beginning and either keep it as is or modify it in some way ( usual standard is going to be between 10-25% better than existing versions used by imperium ) as well as some never offshoots of some of the weapons that would better fit the squats penchant for mining ( think ship sized mining laser - for cutting up those pesky smaller planetoids to get at the rich minerals in the middle and save time ) etc etc…things that fit as well as better computer cogitators…better and newer designs that give more enhancements ( say from a normal +5 rating to a +10 instead to reflect better newer craftsmanship and knowledge ) So none of it will be munchikin or anything..it will all be comparable to normal cannon equipment..just better and newer designed and operational is all..typical of the fluff ive read about the squats and their aptitude for tech in general ( as well as mining )

So…what does everyone say?  and yes additional ideas/thoughts are welcomed ( less i have to figure out..lol ) as will constructive criticism about the gear and its abilities ( never know i might have missed a particular that warrants redo…afterall im only human..not the emperor or anything..lol )



#2 Nameless2all

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

I loved the lore and significant difference in the squats compared to Imperium, and I found it quite sad that they just totally erased any and all information relating to them in Warhammer 40k after awhile.  It really left me feeling baffled and perplexed toward their complete motive for it.  Yea, I know they were not that popular, and having Eldar and Squats made people think of Space Elves and Dwarfs, flying mighty in hammer's ships or ships sprouting trees, but I never took it that way. They were just another abhuman race in Warhammer 40k, that happened to thrive better than Ogryns and Ratlings.  Anyhoot, I thank you on your quest to redeem interest in for the Squats, and wish you the best of luck.  I look forward to whatever you post.

Some ideas that you can also add are better boarding defences on their ships.  Similar to Tenebro-Maze's, but could be named Suicide Tunnels or something.  This would be because the Sqauts, living mostly in mountains or underground, have outstanding knowledge for defences involving small confined areas.  And I see a void ship for them to be similar in this aspect.

Maybe they could also have Augur Arrays that are better at finding mineral deposits, and only okay at finding ships.  In additional, possible Bridge designs better suited toward Mining Objectives or Siege Warfare, with possible Macrobatteries that can be good at bunker killing.  Just some ideas.  I don't have any of my books with me, so alas, I can't homebrew any stats for you.

Once again though, I wish you Emperor Speed on your endeavor. 


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#3 Cobramax76

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:52 AM

Ive gotten the essential starship components all done either using existing components that made sense ( like clan-kin quarters or such ) or creating them ( like the Odinsfire Plasma Drives or mining bridge-courtesy of Nameless2all's idea ) Now all thats left is to modify / create appropriate ship weapons and misc supplemental components ( and create Squat ship classifications and basic hull types for use ) ..lol ugh…I am strongly leaning towards alot of the larger squat ships having the Ironclad option taken ( think battleship armour 60+..lol scary ) as it seems to fit with the general idea of squats and their tech being very strong/durable. But i do want at least some of the ships to have some type of void shielding so not all will have that particular package…anyway just an update on progress



#4 Cobramax76

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:58 AM

Ok got done creating the core of the squat weapons for the ships.  A few examples include the Starfire plasma cannon and Reaver Macrocannon broadsides or the Hammer torpedo battery ( double damage torps with half range..at cost of space and powerdraw of course ) and the Starforge Lance Broadsides. All in all progress is going much faster than expected..lol not really that much left to do…hoping to have the basic version of a masterlist done by beginning of next week



#5 Gavinfoxx

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:23 PM

How I would make a ship that uses only archeotech to travel in the warp…

 

You get a ship with:

Warpsbane Hull

Markov 1 Drive

Starchart Collection

Warp Sextant (which is a big tank of liquid)

a Void Abacus

Elseways Charts

Advanced Cogitator Linkage

and a Prognosticator.

 

Between a best-quality dedicated servitor wearing a prognosticator sitting in the Warp Sextant tank, connected to a ship's cogitator with advanced cogitator Linkage, which also has a Void Abacus linked to the ship's navigational cogitator, a ship should be able to make good jumps in the warp, and be able to make minor corrections from the data coming from the servitor, which also uses the benefits of the hull and the starchart collection and the charts to swim through the warp…



#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:17 PM

 Last I heard (early 2nd edition), Squats do have psykers.  IIRC, they are called Ancestor Lords.


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#7 Cobramax76

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:40 AM

If you could point me to the material where that is found i would be most appreciative since squats were totally removed from what is now considered "canon" material…i might be able to make some use of it…ty



#8 Cobramax76

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:17 AM

First glaring particular would be that in the material i read on the squats didnt use servitors since they werent tech priests and squats and tech priests DONT get along as a standard rule…no way in hell they would want a creepy servitor on their ships since the squats take so much pride in their own higher end technology and think the cult mechanicus are a bunch of metal morons and have no belief in their omnissiah ( hence a fundamental issue with the mechanicus so they wouldnt sell them servitors to begin with ) ….As far as i could tell the squats dont make use of the warp for long interstellar travel anyway..ive gone with a jump drive instead…It requires comparable space and powerdraw to a warpdrive…the jumps are to be up to 4 times farther and faster than warp travel..WITHOUT the issues of needing creepy navigators or risks of being in the warp…Also as a result they dont make use of gellar fields ( can we say a serious flaw in the squat ship designs to be exploited by chaos :P..had to put a nice weakness in there somewhere ) So i decided that without their use of the warp they wont have kept the old gellar field designs or warp engine tech…they got rid of it and redesigned the engines into lightspeed travel instead ( the time it takes to calculate a  jump is time consuming ( a skilled navigator can prep and begin warp entry before a jumpdrive can get the necessary nav coordinates for a safe jump calculated ) So the jump drive takes longer than a warp drive to activate…HOWEVER…you are able to use a jumpdrive IN system ( just not in planetary orbits ) so you dont have to trek to the outer edges of system for the usual open space for a warp entry. Yes you could use Lagrange points to jump from ( not into ) since the gravity factor is balanced out.

For any that dont know what Lagrange points are…the basic of it is a point in space between two celestial bodies ( planets moons etc ) that a smaller mass object can maintain relative fixed position between them ( for example between the earth and the moon there is a lagrange point where the gravitational pull of both the earth and moon equal eachother and any smaller massed object placed at that location..would remain in the location at that point ( neither pulled towards the earth or moon and not floating freely out into deep space but held in check by the two gravitational fields ) This also works for the entire solar system for each there are various lagrange points.

A starchart collection is a very nice idea and does fit quite well…warpsbane hull…more a less unheard of and not needed given they dont use warp travel….However..given they know of it now quite well due to their dealings with imperium for a few centuries…i would say they could make use of it at a SP cost of around +4 ( due to their aversion to warp travel anyway ) I can see them tinkering with a warp sextant also…but not making real use of it in normal ways…

Elseway charts are also a potential but i would need a refference for them and their particulars ( havent seen the material for them )

Advanced cogitator linkeage…very good idea and likely to be something a bit commonplace with the squat tech since it is better and didnt stagnate or drop due to the issues the imperium faced with the heresy..instead squat tech thrived and altered over the millenia of their separation from the imperium

Given their time back around the Imperium i would say they have access to and experience to some degree with all the warp based tools but would greatly prefer to use their own superior ( and safer ) tech to deal with long distance travel since just about all imperium tech would be miserable by comparison..shody craftsmanship by comparison to squat designs…added none of the idiot tech priests have a real working knowledge of how and why the machines work the way they do…why in the name of the emperor would a more intelligent squat with the resources want to use that out dated delapidated contraption?..lol  Simple mindset that i keep with under the storylines for why the squats were removed from the game mechanics in general ( They have a hatred talenf for Xenos - tyrannids AND a dislike for most mechanicum ..they were pushing the squats to give them the STC cores they had since their separation in black night and didnt share the mechanicus belief in spirits in the machines..causing a fundamental rift between the two groups…that and the squat tech was better but they wouldnt agree to give it all over the the mechanicus…something the mechanicus has in past deemed ALL groups heretical for and sought to purge them and take the tech anyway..but with the squats far superior tech…they couldnt win a frontal protracted battle….easiest way…get an inquisitor under their sway and have them order exterminatus on a few key planets/planetoids to influence the course of the hive fleet so that it hits the squat worlds…afterall the nids dont eat tech…they ignore it unless its biological….wait a bit till the nids take care of the squats…then go to their home planets afterwards once the nids have moved on….and take the tech…problem solved…and there are examples of these tactics being used in past to redirect hive fleets to do the work of the imperium in past anyway…) done that way the mechanicum would be blameless in the open view…and they could rush in as well to "assist" the squats…also taking the tech they could get their dendrites on when everyone else was too busy or hurt to notice…



#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

Cobramax76 said:

If you could point me to the material where that is found i would be most appreciative since squats were totally removed from what is now considered "canon" material…i might be able to make some use of it…ty

After a short Google-powered foray into the subject, it seems their psykers are called Living Ancestors, and those among them that also lead armies are called Ancestor Lords. Just Google Squat Living Ancestor or Squat Ancestor Lord or even Squat psykers if you need more.


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#10 Cobramax76

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

TY HappyDaze most helpful…im in process of trying to find some backstory on the squats ( between Old Night and their reintroduction to the imperium ) Reason is twofold…1 ) to make it more interesting and flavorful ( including potential rivalries and alliances ) and 2 ) to give me a good idea for some ship class names and design ideas as well as some backstory on a few of the more notable ships much like the cannon ships have histories of their own..past well known battles etc.etc.. to give the squats a more "fleshed out" well rounded feel to them like the company has done for all the other existing races and ships.

So…anymore leads as to squat history in the interims including famous battles etc in space that i could use ship classes and or names from to make it jive with some of the already established fluff we can find would be much appreciated TY.



#11 Cobramax76

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

Ok.  Lastnight i went through the 40K lexicanum online and looked up everything that is or was squat..found some interesting info i didnt know and now im curious to see what my fellow players and GMs think about what i found and what im considering.

I found 2 weapons that in particular i think would definitely add some interesting potentials for RT ship-ship combat/components.

Specifically im talking about the Conversion Beamer and the Distortion cannon ( or simply D cannon ) . I believe the D cannon is still in use with the Eldar since it was their tech the squats traded for and learned to create before the Imperium made a reappearance to the squats. But RT doesnt have stats for it for ship weapons as far as i know soo….lol

Ill list the specifics of the weapons as far as what the man portable versions do and relative size etc…and then what im looking to do is to upscale them to ship sized..just need to get a broader feel for how BIG they should be as well as the powerdraw they would have for that size ( hence my comment and question here to the rest of you )

First the Conversion beamer

CONVERSION BEAMER

 

A conversion beam projector, often called a "conversion beamer" or simply a "beamer", is a form of heavy weapon.

The conversion beamer fires a high intensity energy beam, which transforms matter into pure energy. A heavily armoured target or dense material will be rent apart as its matter explodes. The more dense the material of the target, the more energy that is converted, making conversion beamers particularly good against heavily armoured troops, vehicles and buildings. The intensity of the beam increases as it extends further from the weapon, becoming increasingly dangerous, until it reaches the focal point where the beam is so intense that the energy has to be released in a violent explosion.

Smaller versions were once known to be occasionally carried by Terminator Marines for cutting through bulkheads when exploring Space Hulks, but this practice is no longer prevalent[Needs Citation].

An unfortunate downside to conversion beamers is that they are incredibly large and heavy (as they require a number of massive capacitors that line the projection tube) and must remain absolutely motionless when operated, or the intensity of the beam will be negated, rendering the shot useless. Because of this, conversion beamers are usually fitted to self-propelled, wheeled carriages or anti-gravity platforms (the operators will often remain at a safe distance using some form of remote control). Users of the somewhat smaller hand-held versions are forced to wear boots with special claws to provide more stable purchase. Another problem with the conversion beamer is the length of time they need build up the energy that is released in the beam. Although it is only a second or so, it is easily long enough for potential targets to have moved or escape the field of fire.

Heavy Conversion BeamerA more powerful version of the "regular" beamer is sometimes found on Contemptor Pattern Dreadnoughts1, Decimator Daemon Engine2 and Deimos pattern Predator Executioner.

 

Now the Distortion Cannon ( or D cannon )

DISTORTION CANNON

 


The Distortion Cannon or D-Cannon is a vortex weapon and the most dangerous of all Eldar weapons. Using the same technology which allows ships to enter the nightmare realm of the Warp, the D-Cannon causes an area of the material universe to momentarily collapse in on itself, essentially creating a miniature warp hole. If the target is lucky then violent, complex gravitational forces will merely tear it to pieces, guaranteeing almost certain death to living creatures or total wreckage to vehicles. If not, the target is sucked completely into warp space.[1][2][3]

Even those outside the affected area can suffer from adverse consequences as the distortion of reality itself causes people and object to be spatially displaced, potentially causing further damage. The only disadvantage of the D-Cannon is that by Eldar standards it is a short-ranged and inaccurate weapon. To an extent the D-Cannon's unpredictability is to be expected, especially for a weapon which makes mockery of the laws of the universe.[1]

The size of the warp hole created depends on the size of the D-Cannon, with larger weapons requiring more power and larger chassis to mount them. The largest D-Cannons are those mounted on Eldar Cobras and Phantom Titans, and even Void Shields are useless in defending against them.[4] These terrifying weapons are capable of swallowing multiple battle tanks in one hit, and the shockwave that results from their sudden closure can knock over other armoured vehicles lucky enough to avoid being dragged into hell.[5]

Efforts by the Adeptus Mechanicus to study and replicate this technology have ended in gruesome failure, particularly in 755299.M40 when unsanctioned work resulted in the Contagion of Eridanus and the deployment of a Grey Knight strike force to halt the daemonic intrusion. Since that incident draconian measures have been enforced upon the Adeptus Mechanicus for dabbling in heretical xeno technology, and those who ignore these restrictions can expect a visit from the Inquisition.[5]

 

What i was considering for the Conversion beamer was to the general tune of the following

NAME                                           ALLOWED HULL TYPE                SPACE    POWER      SP      STRENGTH       DAMAGE        CRIT             RANGE

Conversion Beam Cannon                  ALL                                          10               8             +3               1                  SPECIAL*         2                     9

Conversion Beam Array                Cruiser and above                       20             20             +6                3                SPECIAL*          2                     9

SPECIAL LIMITATIONS:  MUST BE PROW MOUNTED ONLY!

SPECIAL DAMAGE: Treated like a Lance for effects against armour but increases in damage for each VU inbetween the target and the firing ship as follows ( Base damage of 1d10+1. For EACH additional VU the beam travels it gains +1 to damage until it reaches maximum range at which point it will deal 2d10 damage in a violent explosion with the same size as a nova cannon blast ( This weapon is NOT compatable with Turbo systems )

Distortion Cannon                          Cruiser and above                      24             24           +10                1                SPECIAL*          1                   9         

 

SPECIAL LIMITATIONS: MUST BE PROW MOUNTED ONLY!

SPECIAL DAMAGE: IGNORES Void shields and armour! Damage is twofold (1) The target ship hit suffers 5d10 hull damage and if a critical is rolled the ship is also immediately sucked into the warp via a warphole ( hope you have emergency gellar fields and some hull integrity left..lol ) (2) the spatial distortion wave from the warphole effects is treated the same as a nova cannon blast zone for size…ALL ships caught within that blast zone will find themselves pushed 1VU out from the center in addition to taking 1d10 hull damage ( ignoring void shields and armour ) due to the violent and sudden effects in the blast radius Also due to the nature of the effects all ships caught in the blast wake must make piloting checks with failure indicating the ship has taken a critical hit somewhere as result of the sudden "shove" ( check for crit location as normal )

NOTE:  This weapon can only fire once every 3 rounds due to charge time needed and cooldown.  This weapons is NOT Turbo capable!

Well what do you think so far…im not wanting the D cannon mounted on smaller ships…that would be too evil..lol…and i was considering a possible Heavy version of the Conversion beamers meant for battleships ( much like they have already for battlefleet gothic in the rules listings ) that do a bit more damage and longer range etc..but also much larger and power hungry..lol                  
 



#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

I would just treat the Conversion Beamer as a lance doing 1d10+4 damage at regular range, -2 at short (less than half range) and +2 at long (up to double range). There's no reason it needs to be a super weapon.

As for the Distortion Cannon, I'd just treat it like the archeotech variant (Jovian-pattern) of the Nova Cannon - the distortion fields are not large enough to suck an entire ship into the Warp, but it can cause tremendous damage. Too many special rules are not a good thing, but a ship using it's Gellar Field (which precludes use of Void Shields) in combat would likely be immune to this weapon.


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#13 Cobramax76

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:51 PM

Love the idea you mentioned about if the ship using its gellar field…..If a eldar titan sized weapon can swallow several full sized battletanks in one shot..and according to mechanics there is NO save for it..only the crit roll ( if the crit isnt made..then the weapon would only do spacial displacement damage and not open a warphole..so if you have sucky rolls…this weapon would still be very annoying..but lack the luster of its potential ) I havent worked out all the particulars per se but i am going off the basic of the lexicanum description only scaling it accordingly…..On the good side…any ship that had the emergency gellar field could survive the warphole transfer into the warp….then once they got their bearings again a navigator could simply "warp" the ship back to the nearest transit point and come back to fight again ( ty for the reminder of that potential btw….VERY nice indeed..and a surprise for anyone that thought anything hit with the weapon had no chances of coming back again..MUAHAHA ) As for the potential of anyone that is familiar with eldar tech being onboard a bridgecrew…chances are rather …meh ( whatever the GM wants ) BUT…if anyone was and saw the weapon mount on the opposing ship somehow or was familiar with the energy signature or whatever….they could make a check to realize what the weapon is, what it does, and how to defend against it ( IE raise the gellar shield fast enough ) IF you did that somehow..i would say that the gellar field would nullify the damage entirely since the spacial displacement requires a warprift to happen…BUT…doing so would mean your ship had no active shields for however  long it took to raise the voids again..hehe so it is a nice even tradeoff i think.  Definitely useable.  Kudos Happy for a very nice idea

As for any ship unlucky enough to get hit with the voids up and no gellar field…based on the description in the lexicanum about the size of the blast vs weapon size…..i can take it 2 ways ( and one way no one will like because it is instant death reguardless of emergency gellar fields )

Option 1 ) Agreeing with the idea that the blast effects warphole arent large enough to suck a whole ship into the warp….ok…any ship hit with it that the warphole is created is instantly and irrevocably annihilated…for general intent and purpose the warphole is a type of singularity lets say for simplicity sake…the hole WILL be big enough to rip a seriously huge chunk of the ship apart and sucked into the warp….leaving the rest of the ship to suffer the spacial displacement shockwave afterwards ( effectively obliterating the rest of the now defenseless ship from the inside out . RIP ) <shivers with evil grin>

Option 2 ) ( my preffered option after happydazes idea of gellar fields ) The warphole IS big enough to take ANY targetship into the warp that doesnt have its gellar field up at moment of impact…..ok…if the ship has emergency gellar fields it can survive since they should activate as soon as the ships sensors detect the energy signature of a warphole thus saving the ship and her crew to fight another time..it will take the base damage but if its a larger ship like a battlecruiser or such and or in decent repair..the ship should withstand the hit especially with sucky damage rolled on the hit..IF the ship doesnt have emergency gellar fields in place or cant raise the regular ones fast enough….then i encourage the GM to RP that little scenario out if its the PCs ship that managed to get hit to give them a little chance of it…perhaps burning a fate point for all to avoid warp possession long enough to hit the emergency ON switch for the gellar field….then fighting off all the nasties that managed to get inside the ship first ( makes for a fun little mini adventure and more XP for the group..remember a good rogue trader can turn ANY situation into some form of profit!

 As a standard im thinking ill use option 2 for PC ships and option 1 for NPCs ( what can i say i enjoy the theatrics and imagery of a massive starship blown away like that..lol..and my players do as well..lol )

 

As for the Conversion beamer….i pulled the actual combat table and file info from one of the only places i found to have it …from a contemptor dreadnaught from the tabletop rules… Here is the direct excerpt of the weapon standard…youll see ive actually simplified it a bit

Weapon                                           Range              Str           AP            Type
Kheres Assault
Cannon                                                24”                  6             4               Heavy 6, Rending
Heavy Conversion
Beamer                                         Up to 18”               6            -                Heavy 1, 5” Blast, Firing Calibration
                                                        18” to 42”              8            4               Heavy 1, 5” Blast, Firing Calibration
                                                        42” to 72”            10            1               Heavy 1, 5” Blast, FiringCalibration

 

Heavy Conversion Beamer: Conversion Beamers use a different
profile depending on the distance of the target from the firer. When
firing the weapon, measure the distance to the target point and place
the Blast template. Once the final location has been determined (after
scatter), measure to the centre of the Blast marker to determine the
distance and consult the chart below to determine the weapon profile.
• Firing Calibration: The power requirements and targeting
calculations needed by a Heavy Conversion Beamer mean that the
Contemptor Dreadnought cannot move and fire this weapon in the
same turn, despite being a Walker.

In my model all that is increased is the damage dealt..i dont add extra ignore or anything else and especialy dont add option for more hits..One shot..ONE hit….thats why i gave it a Strength of 1 ( to prevent excessive damage ) HOWEVER i have since reconsidered the thought of it…and could modify it accordingly as follows:

Based on the description of what it does…the potential exists for a "chain reaction" to start within a target vessel upon impact….as follows

Normal shot….deals damage and has blast effect and no critical is made

IF a crit is made then the weapon uses a simple rule ( IF you crit with the shot and you roll a 0 ( 10 ) for damage ( effectively allowing it the same as another automatic hit same as a regular "Strength" option…with the potential to keep going if you keep rolling "0" for damage which fits with the stated fluff about its causing more damage the heavier the targets armour is - refer to the fluff description excerpt from several posts back)



#14 Nameless2all

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

Yea…. I'm confused.  Why can't it be used like a Nova Cannon to keep it simple?  Or atleast very similar to those rules?


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#15 Cobramax76

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

Because the Nova cannon rules are incorrect for this weapon. 

1) its a Different weapon than anything else ( yes once it hits it would have a blast marker like a nova cannon..NO it doesnt operate on guesswork to figure out the spot to detonate like a nova cannon does..read the nova cannon rules..this one is a straight shot out until it reaches max range where it detonates there..or it hits something causing a violent explosion ( Similar to but not the same way ) a nova cannon does….A nova cannon fires a shell to explode on target or proximity….the beamer fired a highly charges energy beam..if its close to anything its more like a Lance with the explosive trait…just with a blast radius like that of a nova cannon burst..but thats the ONLY thing it has in common with a Nova cannon..thats why i didnt use that template for it…..In fact your asking me this got me thinking about it and i like the idea of it working like a Lance ( since it is entirely energy based ) but with a explosive impact added

Ive never liked the way they have void shields working anyway and a lances ability to get through them…..i think when they set up the shield rules they fell off the damned wagon at the start….

energy shields stop energy weapons…not physical ones…example torpedoes…dont get stopped by shields..but macros do….wtf…FAIL…physical and physical…but the lance shot penetrates…im good with having the lance penetrating armour BUT only so much…some armours will simply be too thick…example Ironclads….a single lance strike to any one point on an ironclad should not be able to do any hull damage at all ( unless its one of the smaller classed ships turned into a tiny ironclad..lol )

The rework ive done for the shields are simple..they only stop energy based weapons..but they do so effectively ( but not perfectly ) ….making macros and the other big guns worth actually having as well as more dangerous…Lances, lasers etc, have a chance based on the quality of the void shielding to penetrate through and deal damage

Poor quality shield = 25% penetration chance per HIT ( NOT per attack or salvo )

Common quality shield = 20% penetration chance per HIT ( NOT per attack or salvo )
 

Good quality shield = 15% penetration chance per HIT ( NOT per attack or salvo )
 

Best quality shield = 10% penetration chance per HIT ( NOT per attack or salvo )

As far as armour goes and stopping hits etc from getting to the hull…its simple.  Each attack from each weapon totals it number of successful hits and adds up the damage…any damage in excess of the target ships armour rating gets through to damage the hull

EX. lets say ship A has an armour value of 20 ( ironclad ) and ship B uses a single lance weapon and mars macrobattery for its weapons…According to  my rules set the lance should have an easy time hitting the ship…yes…but wont do any actual damage..its total damage maximum with only a strength 1 attack fails to deal more than 20 points of damage…However….the mars macrocannons strength 3 and 1d10+2 per hit gives it a very real chance of dealing over 20 points of damage in a single salvo..so the macrocannon strike will be heavily damaging to such a small enemy ship since they wont have much hull value to begin with. ( EXCEPTION..as always…is a critical success on the hit roll ( IE 01-04%) then the shot managed to find the sweet spot and deal full damage anyway..i always give a chance with every weapon to get "lucky" with a shot and make it actually count )

This rule makes the use of broadsides that much more effective..since their void shields wont stop any of the broadsides…the only mitigating factor for the physical attacks is armour value….effectively giving your ship a "soak" value…the tradeoff if you make a ship an ironclad though is you arent allowed ANY shields…just straight armour..so you best get your turret rating up or get pulverized by massed bomber / torpedo attacks…lol so it is still balanced out.

At close to medium range youll have to deal with the macro batteries etc of an enemy ship..thats fine with sufficient armour…at longer range youll have to deal with the lance arrays etc…still fine if you have decent shields…or sufficient armour…

This will keep the explorer ship safe in ranged combat but could get dicey at short range slugfests with other ships due to massed macro attacks….

IF a ship mounts the lance arrays that do multiple hits ( like the heavier ones do ) then a lance weapon can penetrate even the heavy armour of an ironclad..as long as they can either deal total damage of the armour value or higher…or the attacking ship rolls a 01-04% attack reguardless of lance strength.  So no matter what there is always a chance to get hit ( just greater at closer range ) and this is actually less on record keeping when it comes to streamlining the turns….instead of having extra damage rolls to check vs penetration for the lances..simple…any single strength lance shot that didnt roll )1-04% to strike…Fails to do any damage…no extra roll needed..next weapon/attack…For shields against energy based weaponry..they check against the quality for chance of penetration..if they roll under their percentage chance on a attack roll then the attack penetrated the shield…if they rolled higher than the percentage..then the attack was stopped by the shield ( no damage roll ) … 
 



#16 Errant

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

In what crazy alternate universe do you exist that makes macrocannons worse than lances by RAW?



#17 HappyDaze

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

Errant said:

In what crazy alternate universe do you exist that makes macrocannons worse than lances by RAW?

Look at his house rules. There are so many deviations from RAW that I can't even begin to analyze his proposed Squat weapons without spending time and effort to piece out how he runs basic weapons and shields. That's not something I'm going to spend my time and effort to do.


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#18 Cobramax76

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

Simple Errant….Lances have LESS STRENGTH than macrobatteries do…therefore they can deal out more damage total than lances do ( individually ) IF you can get good rolls/success degreees etc…..now if you start talking lance batteries…then things get alot more even up…. Yes Lances bypass armour. And for the record…the above standards for things were given a trial run since i posted them and found more complicated and cumbersome than intended.  I have gone back to the mainbook to read exactly how they have it ( My group has always focused more on RP and getting upclose and personal in the enemy ships ( boarding actions etc..and i wont leave those to a dice roll that could arbitrarily get the entire group killed..esp not with a rookie player now so i give them hell getting there but they always make it or get messed up badly enough to have to limp back to their ship ) After rereading the entire combat and defensive sections….I realized it had been so long since that i had misread some of it and have altered a fair bit of what i had in mind for things so..

I have the corebook and into the storm but NEITHER of them gives exact rules on torpedos ( if they do its NOT in the section it should be in ( combat/defensive etc ..even found that little disclaimer saying they would post the specific rules in a supplement…buggery..)…checked the back of the book for torpedo listings as well..nadda…

One thing particular i wont use is the shields ability to "pop" back up to take X number of hits from EVERY ship your fighting no matter how many are there each round…Im going with the shield stopping X number of hits for that round TOTAL….not per each enemy ship….UNLESS your engineer can make a nice roll with a bit of luck thrown in to get it working again fast…..otherwise once the shield has taken its X number of hits…its out of commission till next round ( i realize many like the current rule for it more ..but it just doesnt sit with me or the players as ive mulled it over with them…weve agreed it takes X number of hits per round period ) …then regenerates/back online for the next round later…Also the shield wont stop incoming projectile based weapons ( macros, torpedoes,bombers etc )..Only stops lances, lasers etc …..These two rules alterations make the PCs more cautious about closing into range for a slugfest since it is easier to get the ship damaged if they do…which is accurate anyway. Afterall lances and laser batteries have longer range than any macros etc anyway….All the other aforementioned variations are null and void after full playtesting…

One other thing that i havent found for the RPG of this yet..the board to play on..lmao..these guys talk about all the ranges etc for this game thats supposed to be an RPG but then go and list ranges ( not in miles or kilometers ) but in squares ( just like a boardgame )…WTF….Its an RPG..boards arent used…the game mechanics are designed for gameboard use for the TT..NOT an rpg…can we say glaring oversight…….I can see listing them for short/med/long range etc..for the GM to keep track of ( since the GM is supposed to keep tabs on distance etc for everything….anyway ) To be able to say your in long range now do you want to use the lance or close to med-short and use the macros etc……IE actual RPG.  So ill continue to use the method i have been for determining range ( whatever the GM wants it to be is what it is..your either close enough to use the weapon..or your not…its gonna be whatever works for my session plan and gives the players some fun visual pics of the action in their minds..Not keepin track of squares on a board that doesnt exist )

 



#19 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:59 AM

Cobramax76 said:

One other thing that i havent found for the RPG of this yet..the board to play on..lmao..these guys talk about all the ranges etc for this game thats supposed to be an RPG but then go and list ranges ( not in miles or kilometers ) but in squares ( just like a boardgame )…WTF….Its an RPG..boards arent used…the game mechanics are designed for gameboard use for the TT..NOT an rpg…can we say glaring oversight…….I can see listing them for short/med/long range etc..for the GM to keep track of ( since the GM is supposed to keep tabs on distance etc for everything….anyway ) To be able to say your in long range now do you want to use the lance or close to med-short and use the macros etc……IE actual RPG.  So ill continue to use the method i have been for determining range ( whatever the GM wants it to be is what it is..your either close enough to use the weapon..or your not…its gonna be whatever works for my session plan and gives the players some fun visual pics of the action in their minds..Not keepin track of squares on a board that doesnt exist )

 

Having a board for tactical mapping doesn't shift a game away from being a RPG, and not having a board doesn't make a game an 'actual' RPG.


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#20 Nameless2all

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:33 PM

…………   I like to utilize the KISS approach.  Keep It Simple Silly………..  And yet, all this isn't simple IMHO.  Maybe I'm over thinking it, or reading too much into it, but alas all this has made me thoroughly confused.  Don't get me wrong, I love your concepts for Squat Weapon Technology, but these methods are too complex for me.  Wish you luck Cobramax76.

1) I have the corebook and into the storm but NEITHER of them gives exact rules on torpedos ( if they do its NOT in the section it should be in ( combat/defensive etc ..even found that little disclaimer saying they would post the specific rules in a supplement…buggery..)…checked the back of the book for torpedo listings as well..nadda…

2) One thing particular i wont use is the shields ability to "pop" back up to take X number of hits from EVERY ship your fighting no matter how many are there each round…Im going with the shield stopping X number of hits for that round TOTAL….not per each enemy ship….


1) They have torpedoes in BFK (Battle Fleet Koronus).  Don't have my book with me, so sorry, no page reference.

2)  I think they somewhat had a solution for this in BFK.  It is where you could group ships into a squadron, and they all acted on the same initiative and fired at the same time.  Though they all had to stay in formation and near each other for this effect to happen.  This is really useful when you have 3 Cobra Destroyers against a Light Cruiser or Cruiser.  Meaning, they could actually hurt or destroy the ship on equal footing.  Once again though, I don't have the page reference.


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