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#1 sejestephan

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

 I now have X-wing and played a few games. I really just want to share my experiences.

first off, it worth mentioning I have 2 starter sets and one of each expansion. At no point was I interested in playing with the sad contents of a single core set, so I got enough to play 100 points to begin with.

I love Star Wars and I love space battles, and this game has got a lot of star wars and a very good system for space fights. It's a fun game, but it also feels very incomplete so far. I think FFG made a mistake with three aspects of the game and they're here:

1) the loose your action rule when you collide with another ship. I don't see why in 3D space that it would be a problem. I believe the ships should just touch bases and be considered to be outside each others firing arc. When the dog fighting gets down and dirty it's almost impossible not to collide at some point and it annoys me that it has to cost an action..

2) they should have brought out wave 2 right away. I've played maybe 5 games and already I'm a little tired of x-wings vs TIES. I would have loved to have more options for customizing my force right of the bat. Also there is simply not enough upgrades worth taking so far. The upgrade system seems a little clumsy. Marksman is by far the meanest generic upgrade and r2d2 on Luke is naughty. Other than that they're too expensive, especially because you often wants to upgrade your great pilots making them way to expensive. More ships means more attacks and there isn't a single upgrade thats good enough to actually defend the choice of not going vanilla for more ships. The pilots are not much better. A couple of them are really good, the rest are hardly worth taking over their cheapest option. I personally hate that their ships are identical, why couldn't Wedge have one more power and where is his unique dial to represent his famous maneuvers like the Antilles Maneuvre? The fact that ALL x-wings and TIES have the exact same statline apart from upgrades and pilot skill is just a little tedious to me. 

3) why are TIES faster than x-wings? All rpgs and fluff stories I've read clearly states that.a standard TIE/in and an x-wing has the same speed. Where is the ties famous talon roll manouvre? 

Also more scenarios!

i really want to like this game and I probably will after a couple of more expansions, it just feels so incomplete at the moment.

 



#2 Budgernaut

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

 Your points are valid opinions, but I want to address point number 2. If any of your points are opinions and not facts, it's definitely this one. To each his own, right? And so when I disagree, understand that it's just my opinion and I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong. With that said, I completely disagree with your feelings on the variety in wave 1. I've played 7 games so far and haven't used the same squad twice. There are many squads I'd like to use again but haven't had time to. I think wave 1 was a perfect introduction to this game. I've only played one 100-point game though. That may be why it feels so limited to you. It is harder to get variety in squads at 100 points than at say, 70 points, which is where I usually play at. I think lower point games are more challenging because you have fewer ships. In a 100-point match, you just make all your fighters concentrate on one ship, blow it up, move on to the next one. With fewer ships, it's not likely the combined fire of all your ships will destroy that first enemy, so you have to think about other strategies. But in any case, thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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#3 Parakitor

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:37 PM

 Well in response to point 3, the Star Wars Roleplaying Game Saga Edition by Wizards of the Coast gives X-wings a maximum movement of 4 squares (starship scale) and TIE fighters can move 5 squares. You're right about the old X-wing and TIE fighter video games giving them the same speed though, so I don't know which one is "right." I do feel that the faster TIEs help to balance them against the X-wings, allowing them to escape from their target lock range.

I think you must be a more advanced gamer than me because I bought the expansions and didn't open them for a week because I felt that the core set had loads of options. Which really surprised me actually. If I had known it would be that fulfilling on its own I would have waited to buy the expansions…okay maybe not. But like Budgernaut, I usually play 60-70 point games.


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#4 haslo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

Concerning the maximum speeds, they indeed have the same in most sources, including the reference sheets that were used by ILM for filming Return of the Jedi (assuming this really is it and not a fake):

Speed in this game represents both maximum speed and maneuverability / acceleration, and TIEs seem to be better at accelerating than X-Wings. So it makes sense to me that they get a faster template than X-Wings, essentially becoming more flexible at higher speeds.


Imperials: 13 TIE Fighter, 5 TIE Advanced, 15 TIE Interceptor, 4 Slave I, 6 TIE Bomber, 5 Lambda Shuttle, 3 TIE Defender, 4 TIE Phantom

Rebels: 1 Tantive IV, 1 Rebel Transport, 7 X-Wing, 5 Y-Wing, 4 YT-1300, 6 A-Wing, 5 B-Wing, 5 HWK-290, 6 Z-95, 3 E-Wing


#5 KevinBakon

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:43 AM

 This makes me wonder how they will differentiate between the b-wing and y-wing in game…



#6 SuperSoldier

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:16 AM

 I completely agree with point 2. Even if they wanted to hold off on the likes of the Falcon and Slave I, I really wish there was the A-Wing and Interceptor right off the bat. Feel like the A-Wing would give the Rebels so many more different looks as a fleet. Sure you can use different pilot/upgrade combinations…but the speed values/point values is what is mostly the same. The A-Wing would have brought some much needed maneuverability, and hopefully a sub-20 point fighter (I don't count the Y-Wing because ION is auto include and the cheapest one with it is 23).

 

Plus I'm hoping that the boost mechanic will really give much more variance to dogfights. Not that they're stale, I  like everything X-Wing has to offer…it just would've felt like that much more of a complete release to me with the A-Wing and interceptor.



#7 Hrathen

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:04 AM

I have to say I really disagree with point 2).  I find there to be tons of variety available with the current ships out.  I would like to point out that if you only have two box sets, then you don't have TIE advanced, or Y-Wings.  Not to mention some really cool TIE and X-wing pilots that are only available in the boosters.  Your playing without Vader or Wedge. 

I actually really enjoy the different pilot mechanic for the various ships.  I love Howelrunner, but my friend says that he would never take him.  He prefers to field a mass of cheaper TIEs.


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#8 SuperSoldier

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

 I'm not saying so much about the pilots, but the ships and their movement capabilities….it is a miniature game after all. I love the variation with the pilots, but the rebels have two different ships. Regardless of pilot they essentially move the same way and have the same stats/do the same thing. I would have really liked a bomber of some sort to be available for empire side or even the interceptor early…something to differentiate from the two models that already exist. I love the game, it's a minor qualm which will be solved when wave 2 comes out..but it is in fact a miniature game and there's only 4 miniatures out currently. 



#9 SuperSoldier

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:16 AM

 Another thing, while playing X-Wing at my local game store I've garnered much interest. The most common response though has been, "I think I'll pick it up when more ships come out." 



#10 -Istaril

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:17 AM

 I don't know - I understand their release schedule entirely. The game doesn't feel "incomplete" to me, and we're currently acting out the dogfights from Episode IV with all the ships involved. It makes sense thematically, and it's given us some base variety to play with. Of course I'm looking forward to the Interceptor and A-wing, and would love to have them out now - but I'm sure I'll feel the same way about the B-wing and Bombers I imagine will be released in Wave 3.



#11 SuperSoldier

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:45 AM

 Yea I understand their reasoning behind it. But purely from the perspective of it being a miniatures game it sorta sucks, especially when I'm trying to get other people in my area to play. Everyone loves Star Wars, but not everyone is that into it to say, "Well yea the first wave is only ships from IV." They're more along the lines of, "Why sink so much money into this game when I only have 2 miniatures to choose from."

 

I mean the game had me hooked right away…and obviously some awesome SW fans are buying it like crazy. But currently it's not flying off the shelves by me due to the price and the variability for what you're paying. I'm excited for wave 2 though as many people said they'll be buying it once they can get their hands on the Falcon, so at least that will reel in some more casual fans.



#12 frogimus

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:18 AM

 The A-Wing and the other TIE will round out all I need.  The Falcon and (hopefully) the Lambda-Class Shuttle will make good objectives, but I don't see using them for actual gameplay (me personally - the rest of you can do what you want).  Slave 1 will be a pass.

I have other miniatures games for tabletop warfare.  X-Wing is gonna be my quick, pew-pew, pretend I'm reliving A New Hope, dogfighting game.



#13 ScottieATF

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:16 AM

sejestephan said:

 I now have X-wing and played a few games. I really just want to share my experiences.

first off, it worth mentioning I have 2 starter sets and one of each expansion. At no point was I interested in playing with the sad contents of a single core set, so I got enough to play 100 points to begin with.

I love Star Wars and I love space battles, and this game has got a lot of star wars and a very good system for space fights. It's a fun game, but it also feels very incomplete so far. I think FFG made a mistake with three aspects of the game and they're here:

1) the loose your action rule when you collide with another ship. I don't see why in 3D space that it would be a problem. I believe the ships should just touch bases and be considered to be outside each others firing arc. When the dog fighting gets down and dirty it's almost impossible not to collide at some point and it annoys me that it has to cost an action..

2) they should have brought out wave 2 right away. I've played maybe 5 games and already I'm a little tired of x-wings vs TIES. I would have loved to have more options for customizing my force right of the bat. Also there is simply not enough upgrades worth taking so far. The upgrade system seems a little clumsy. Marksman is by far the meanest generic upgrade and r2d2 on Luke is naughty. Other than that they're too expensive, especially because you often wants to upgrade your great pilots making them way to expensive. More ships means more attacks and there isn't a single upgrade thats good enough to actually defend the choice of not going vanilla for more ships. The pilots are not much better. A couple of them are really good, the rest are hardly worth taking over their cheapest option. I personally hate that their ships are identical, why couldn't Wedge have one more power and where is his unique dial to represent his famous maneuvers like the Antilles Maneuvre? The fact that ALL x-wings and TIES have the exact same statline apart from upgrades and pilot skill is just a little tedious to me. 

3) why are TIES faster than x-wings? All rpgs and fluff stories I've read clearly states that.a standard TIE/in and an x-wing has the same speed. Where is the ties famous talon roll manouvre? 

Also more scenarios!

i really want to like this game and I probably will after a couple of more expansions, it just feels so incomplete at the moment.

 

I'd respond inline but your points kind of jump around a bit so bear with me.

I agree in part with point 3.  TiEs and especially TiE ADV.  are not out right faster then an X-wing they shouldn't have a 5 straight maneuver  But do you know what the Talon Roll is?  It be impossible to replicate in this game and is only a response to a very specific criteria.

In regards to point 1.  You have only, as you said, 5 games under your belt.  Avoiding other ships takes a bit more practice, and then penalty does add a tactical element

Point 2 I just don't get.  You are complaining they should have brought out Wave 2 at release, but you still aren't even making use of all of Wave 1?  Wave 1 isn't just TiEs and X-wings there are two other ships, so I find your complaint disingenuous.

Also you upgrade analysis is really flawed.  You think after 5 games that you have the strategic nuances of the game already figured out?  I have over 20 games in, and I won't make that claim.  But I will say that Marksmanship is so overrated in all but a few instances (Clusters and Vader) and R2D2 on an X-wing seriously limits your ability to move, which your opponent should be (but apparently isn't) keying on.  Just of that I can be quite positive you are jumping to alot of strategic conclusions. I'm really quite flabbergasted that you think you have a game figured out, with only 5 games in, and you haven't even been utilizing (based on your post) all the models available.

I think you'd be fair less bored with the game if you actually tested out some things instead of playing a handful of games and making up your mind of upgrades and ships.



#14 Dr. Morbius

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:18 AM

To partially answer Point 3: The "Talon Roll" as we used to know it from the SWCCG is a possible action for all the TIEs…only it's called "Barrel Roll" in this game…



#15 bsmith13

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:08 AM

haslo said:

Concerning the maximum speeds, they indeed have the same in most sources, including the reference sheets that were used by ILM for filming Return of the Jedi (assuming this really is it and not a fake):

Speed in this game represents both maximum speed and maneuverability / acceleration, and TIEs seem to be better at accelerating than X-Wings. So it makes sense to me that they get a faster template than X-Wings, essentially becoming more flexible at higher speeds.

This is a bonafide drawing, in that it was generated by LucasFilm.  It first appeared in one of the Return of the Jedi art books back in 1983.  I still have mine.

However, my thinking is that it doesn't accurately represent how things "are" in the Star Wars universe.  Remember how Gold Squadron was destroyed before it could launch any torpedoes at the exhaust port?  The X-Wings were able to launch.  To me, that means that X-Wings are faster than Y-Wings, and TIE Fighters are faster than X-Wings.

And then there is all the information from the X-Wing/TIE Fighter computer games.

In the end, as this is all pretend, you are going to have to choose your reality.



#16 veritechc

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

bsmith13 said:

However, my thinking is that it doesn't accurately represent how things "are" in the Star Wars universe.  Remember how Gold Squadron was destroyed before it could launch any torpedoes at the exhaust port?  The X-Wings were able to launch.  To me, that means that X-Wings are faster than Y-Wings, and TIE Fighters are faster than X-Wings.

 

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots.

 

Perhaps the X-wings were just more lucky? Maybe the Force wasn't with those Y-Wing pilots. Or maybe they died to increase the suspense of the moment cause it was in the script, lol.

 



#17 Black2

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

I was heavily into the West End Games D6 RPG 15 years ago, and in all editions the Tie Fighters were faster than the X-wing. So I grew up always thinking that Tie Fighters were faster. The Star Warriors dog fighting game of the 90's also had Ties being faster.

The fact that the Ties in the trench crept up on Luke cutting through his wingmen always reenforced that Ties were slightly faster than X-wings.



#18 CaptainRook

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

You're correct, the game is incomplete, and that's a wonderful thing.  If you're tired of what you have, be creative, make your own scenarios and try new things.  Make it work, find the silver lining.

1.)  I'm not really sure what to say about the first point, other than:  Consider your action to be 'Avoid Collision' and be happy both ships don't take damage, or this game would become a very annoying conundrum of heavier ships trying to ram the lighter ones.  You're not losing your action, you're just making sure you don't lose your ship.  Again:  Find the silver lining. 

2.)  The range of cinematic fighters: TIE Fighter/Advanced/Interceptor/Bomber for the Imperials and X, Y, A and B Wings for the Rebels(Keep in mind the Snowspeeders are restricted to atmosphere).  We already have half of the original trilogy starfighters.  If Wave 3 includes the Bombers(Maybe the Lamda Shuttle as well?  Not sure why, but in the sake of being thorough), we'll be out of classic small craft.  This means Fantasy Flight will be tapping the Expanded Universe and, I shudder to think, the Prequel Era. 

3.)It's been said, but I'm going to support the previous commenters:  It's the Barrel Roll. 


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