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VAGUERIES AND MISDIRECTION


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#1 COCLCG

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:26 PM

wow. Popped back in for a squizz and this forum has really gone to the dogs since i left. So I thought i'd just jot down my latest and greatest deck that i've been working on to try and spice things up ( a cameo if you will - haha ), namely:

VAGUERIES AND MISDIRECTION

Character (30)

Patsy  x3
Lodge Barkeep  x3
Protector of Secrets  x3
Tragic Celebrity  x3
Lord Jeffrey Farrington  x3
Master of the Myths  x3
Dirk Sharpe  x3
Lodge Librarian  x3 - (variant The Fixer x3)
Lookout  x3
The Red-Gloved Man  x3

Support (9)

Bound and Gagged  x3
Arkham Advertiser Archives  x3
Gun Runner's Club  x3

Event (9)

Intimidate  x2
Forcing the Truth  x2
Kidnapping 101  x3 - (variant x2)
Rumormill  x2 - (variant x3)

Conspiracy (2)

Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris  x2

The best way I can describe it is to liken the deck to water. It does everything it can to win 3 stories very quickly while never directly engaging the opponent. It has to date yet to be defeated, in fact has yet to concede a single story, and hasn't not finished the game by turn 5, though its been more likely turn 3 or 4. Usually without the opposition of a single character.

Negotium in this deck is basically a massive Syndicate exhaustion of resources for the opponent, tying up all the 2 costs in a story I’m not even particularly interested in contending, only defending when possible and keeping around through the use of Patsy and Rumormill ( my biggest surprise for a great situational card yet, effectively 'uncommitting' the entire 2 cost opposition), while also hassling with Bound and Gagged. Tattooed thug and Keeper of the Sphere come to mind for a Synd / Twilight conspiracy deck, but my own 2 costs have a purpose that is much different to actual story interaction.

That being, that most of the deck beyond Negotium is designed to play 3 cost characters out as quickly and cheaply as possible, while using all the exhaustion power of a syndicate / twilight deck against only 3 cost or above opponents characters, now being able to practically ignore the 2 cost competition.

Once NPIT is out ( generally turn 1 or 2 ):

Master of the Myths – is being played for 1 cost

Dirk Sharpe – often follows for 2 cost

Then while the rest of the 3 costs ( all with arcane and investigation icons ) are coming out:

Lodge Barkeep – is keeping opp. 3+ cost characters exhausted every refresh phase

Protector of Secrets – is denying an opp. 3 costs opportunity to defend my story phase

Lord Jeffrey Farrington – is bouncing an opp. 3+ cost back to hand for my story phase

Lookout – is exhausting opp. 3+ cost characters as they are played

And Intimidate, Forcing the Truth, Kidnapping and the occasional 3 cost 2 skill Bound and Gagged ( a poss. 22 cards ), are all working to keep those opp. 3+ cost characters very busy and out of the 3 non-conspiracies. I’m also finding Bound and Gagged priceless vs Lunatics, Intimidate vs morphing opp. MoM's / Intervention, and Kidnapping vs Black Dogs.

This deck is also quick, sometimes VERY quick, with 3 x Tragic celebrity and 3 x Gun Runners Club keeping many cards in hand, while Lodge Librarian filters out unique multiples and unnecessary cards. 3 x Arkham Archives then helps refresh domains to make use of these extra cards ( which from Gunrunners is usually next opp. draw phase ), especially when you can confidently use all 3 domains in your turn when you can see that 1 or 2 might come back for events and / or the Myths Master in the opponents turn ( meaning you possibly get to use it in your turn as well – no umming or arring which phase to pick ). So far I’ve never really had any contesters to stories for the INV success trigger.

I was tempted to exchange the Archives for Penthouse, but as a unique 2 cost I saw it getting in the way of other 2 costs ( 22 of them ) and breaking the character flow when I can get almost as good for a 1 cost, and it seems to work particularly fine with a 3:2:1 set up anyway ( as there are purposely no 3 costs beyond the 12 characters – not inclusive of Dirk or Master ).

Also of note is that all the 1 costs ( theoretically 16 or 19 with below variant ) can all be used with a 1 syndicate resource domain, making resourcing quite predictable. This is a very low cost deck with 38 cards of cost 1 or 2 to play or activate, and 12 of cost 3, and can start pumping out 4 cards a turn with a 3:2:1 domain in certain conditions.

The only real variant I have been using is swapping Lodge Librarian for The Fixer ( Synd 3 cost character who can play for 1 cost when attachment in play ) as combined with MoM and Dirk it can create a 4 x 3 cost characters in turn 2 ( along with NPIT ). It does rely on Bound and Gagged though or opponent attachments or a reshuffle of my own deck for more attachments ( i sometimes sneak in a couple of fortifying ouzo's ), which I’m loathe to do until further playtesting. Also the ST card no. starts to get a bit low for my liking ( Would be then 18 with a minor 1 card faction swap as well ). It does of course make perfect sense to make this change ( making 9 x self reducing 3 cost character cards and only 9 '3 costs' ), but I’ll try this version a bit longer.

 



#2 dboeren

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 05:06 AM

I like this deck more than the other, it seems to "fit together" better for me and has better early game characters without relying as much on recurring combos.

If you can clear a couple of cards and want to tip the faction balance slightly towards Silver Twilight, maybe put in some Steal the Soul or Pass Grip of a Master.  If anyone does end up contesting you for the stories (and someone will sooner or later) these are both cheap cards which may help get rid of them or limit the damage.  It may cost you a 2-domain at times, but the effect is what matters.

However, some of your own guys will be "caught" by Negotium as well.  Whether or how much of a problem that is I can't say without actually trying the deck out, but it's something to watch for.



#3 COCLCG

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 05:23 AM

thanks for the advice ! will keep in mind but will keep playing this version until it actually loses a game, and then re-configure around why it did so. as for the 2 costs - no problem. they're not designed to interact with stories, just delay the opp. 3 costs and give me more cards and the opp. less success icons. cheers again.



#4 COCLCG

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

in case you were wondering dboeren, you were right that i needed a smidgen of in story protection, and so included Blind Fighting as a substitute for Forcing The Truth, as it just never seemed to get drawn when it was useful, and i've got a host of 2 costs eager to exhaust to get it back in hand, and also replaced Rumormill ( sadly ) with Steal the Soul. Now more playtesting and adjusting the balance of events. If i need to ramp it up further i could also replace Bound and Gagged with Fortifying Ouzo as most 2 skill characters are tied up in Negotium anyway, but i've found it useful against Lunatics and Shub ( + other ) 3 costs to date. Also Patsy could be replaced by Clover Club Bouncer in future playtests to make it useful versus 3 skill as well but I'm liking the success stripping. Tried the Fixer but wasn't reliable enough on a constant playtest basis, and the lack of an INV icon made the theory of quick story snatching while the 3+ costs were exhausted a bit slower. So it now looks like this:

 

VAGUERIES AND MISDIRECTION

Character (30)

Patsy x3
Lodge Barkeep x3
Protector of Secrets x3
Tragic Celebrity x3
Lord Jeffrey Farrington x3
Master of the Myths x3
Dirk Sharpe x3
Lodge Librarian x3
Lookout x3
The Red-Gloved Man x3

Support (8)

Bound and Gagged x3
Arkham Advertiser Archives x3
Gun Runner's Club x2

Event (10)

Intimidate x3
Blind Fighting x2
Kidnapping 101 x3 
Steal the Soul x2

Conspiracy (2)

Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris x2
 



#5 COCLCG

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

POST ENDED - FURTHER AND ALMOST FINAL EDIT ON CGDATABASE



#6 Runix

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

I like it, although I suspect it would be vulnerable to a very aggressive Khopesh deck.  I think Lodge Barkeep is a great card, certainly overlooked, and this is the perfect deck for it - but a Khopesh deck would like cut him out first while resourcing up until the Feathered Serpents and so forth come into play, and at that point you may have some difficulty.

If nothing else, I would test this against a Serpents heavy deck that also has Khopesh and Temple of R'lyeh, just to make sure you can deal with the destruction.  Dutch Courage may be a necessary addition, and possibly some support removal as well.



#7 COCLCG

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

ok. maybe almost final post. that was a very dignified response so with respect i will certainly reply.

thanks for the input runix. for both this and the re-occurring nightmare response. i could see us having some very civil and interesting discussions on strategy and planning. 

the khopesh is indeed the bane of this deck. if it comes out early then its not so bad while characters are still stuck in negotium and if i can stall with a couple of exhaustion events and master of myths to recover, boosted with the domain recovering of the archives, but thats an IF. patsy might also help with the come back, but i can see once that happens another khopesh likely coming along. dutch courage is certainly a valid addition to help prevent this, and perhaps would be a better choice than bound and gagged, as this is very situational against 3 costs. Unfortunately this faction combo is very light on immediate support removal, or support removal in general. it's good at nicking things after the fact but i found once i started compensating for every deck type out there i soon lost the ability to win the game in 3 turns with a nice draw, 4 or 5 with an average one, which the speed of was primarily the main idea behind the deck. to get my 3 costs out as soon as possible and aided with 3 cost opponent exhaustion / story denial / bouncing and INV icons go to uncontested stories. i cant see the change to dutch courage effecting this too badly. i've said it before that to my own detriment, i sometimes overlook the cards all the cool kids use in an effort to be original, but i suppose thats exactly why they use them and to win consistently i need to change that attitude.

but yes. i will try the deck with dutch courage in luei of bound and gagged and test against the deck you described. repeatedly no doubt.

this change would also fix my 1 cost character dilemma too, so might kill 2 birds with one stone. without bound and gagged, the bouncer is now void, so the patsy will remain. i might also then be able to remove blind fighting and go back to the original forcing the truth or low blow. i will do some shuffling and see how it goes. the downside is that i'll then be stripping some of the 21 x 1 cost cards ( to play or activate ) and replacing them with 2 costs. the drive is always to a 3:1:1 domain set up in 2nd turn, so the huge quantity of 1 costs was very capable of still running at full domain use and in accordance with the plan.

it has faced a khopesh deck, but i was very lucky i guess with the draw and ended the game in turn 4 after a brief spout against the khopesh in turn 2 on a non toughness character.

excellent advice delivered in a calm, subtle and non absolutes manner. well done.



#8 COCLCG

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:25 AM

BRING ON THE PETER CLOVER. MWAH HAHAHAHAHAHA.

latest edit :

VAGUERIES AND MISDIRECTION

Character (30)

Patsy x3
Lodge Barkeep x3
Protector of Secrets x3
Tragic Celebrity x3
Lord Jeffrey Farrington x3
Master of the Myths x3
Dirk Sharpe x2
Peter Clover x2
Lodge Librarian x2
Lookout x3
The Red-Gloved Man x3

Support (9)

Dutch Courage x3
Arkham Advertiser Archives x3
Gun Runner's Club x3

Event (9)

Intimidate x3
Steal the Soul x3
Kidnapping 101 x3

Conspiracy (2)

Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris x2
 



#9 badash56

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

I like the look of this deck, going to give it a build to see how it plays this weekend.  Do you find that Gun Runners Club is useful in combination with Tragic Celebrity on the table?



#10 COCLCG

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:21 AM

sometimes. it has the capacity ( due to low cost and the archives ) to pump out 4 or 5 cards a turn if things go well. and gun runners seems to get used most turns after the opponent draws cards, but generally the excess end up as resource cards, or using the lodge librarians ability, go to the discard to make room for more useful cards. i just wanted it to have a really fast flow of cards and 6 copies makes it more of a certainty, as essentially it 'tries' to be a kind of 3 cost rush deck. its nowhere near finished as more cards need to be trialled through it ( underground asylum for one ) and the balance between uncommitting / exhaustion etc and defence might need some adjusting, so build and modify and hope you have some fun with it. not sure how competative it is, but its done quite well so far in the games i've played. also i dont own peter clover to see if that change makes any difference.



#11 COCLCG

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

as an afterthought, if you're finding the 3 x celebrity / runners too much you might either swap a celebrity for the 3rd dirk or librarian, or if adding another support / event ( which may be my case ) the 3rd runners would be the first to go i feel.



#12 COCLCG

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:05 AM

VAGUERIES AND MISDIRECTION

Character (30)

Patsy x3
Lodge Barkeep x3
Protector of Secrets x3
Tragic Celebrity x3
Lord Jeffrey Farrington x3
Master of the Myths x3
Dirk Sharpe x2
Peter Clover x2
Carl Stanford x2
Lookout x3
The Red-Gloved Man x3

Support (9)

Dutch Courage x3
Arkham Advertiser Archives x3
Gun Runner's Club x3

Event (9)

Intimidate x3
Steal the Soul x3
Kidnapping 101 x3

Conspiracy (2)

Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris x2

just got the seekers sent via scan and this could be a workable option. Carl Stanford could perhaps help against the bane of this deck ( being cards like anthropology advisor and priestess of bubastis ), and has some nice icons to boot. i dont mind so much running 2 x uniques as if they havent died already then theres not much else id really want to resource so they're the obvious choice. if only drawing 2 and playing 2 was ever going to be a problem for this deck then fair enough. ill give it a try and see how it goes. the lodge librarian has been fairly helpful on occasion though.

to further reason why 3 x tragic celebrity / gun runners, the good thing is they're not unique, so even with support destruction you should have at least 1 in play most the time if not all, and i'll be damned when one of my opponents was cheeky enough to infernal obsession my first tragic celebrity !! the other card that has been tempting me to find a place to make use of the extra cards is 'unbound'. ive had another opponent of mine clear out his hand with one of these cards at a crucial moment to kill a character in story and / or remove a low skill terror blockage OR i could remove with a single card a stoopid infernally obsessive tragic celeb, and with the above deck you should be getting 3 perhaps 4 cards back the next turn. but i think it might upset the decks integrity as so might the Carl.



#13 GrahamM

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Hey! I was just going to post a Hastur Syndicate deck that I'd built, but I started browsing the deck forums and noticed this one, which is basically the same concept, so I just thought I'd post my deck here and we could compare.

CHARACTERS--30

3 Patsy

3 Tragic Celebrity

3 Tattoo Artist

3 Lookout

3 Peter Clover

3 David Pan

2 James Crusher (iffy)

3 The Red Gloved Man

2 Marcus Jamburg

2 Victoria Glasser

3 Demon Lover

 

EVENTS--3

2 Apeirophobia

1 Power Drain (iffy)

 

SUPPORT--14

2 Dutch Courage

3 The Guzheng

1 Caven of Flame

3 Stygian Eye

3 Infernal Obsession

2 Ice Shaft

 

CONSPIRACY--3

3 Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris…

 

Some things I'm still deciding in my head about the deck--I might take James Crusher out and add more power drains. I also might take Tattoo artist or Victoria Glasser out and add performance artist instead. Ideally I would have more Cavern of Flames, but I only own the one copy. In theory I'd like to have another Marcus Jamburg and another Ice Shaft, but this deck has a lot of neutrals as is. I was afraid to put in less than 3 of either Negotium or the Red Gloved Man, but I noticed that you snuck by with 5, COCLCG, so I might try to add in another Jamburg in place of a Red-Gloved Man.

Anyway the basic concept is pretty similar to COC's deck--you use Negotium to screen most of your opponent's characters away and then use the remaining cards to snipe off the remaining cost 3+ cards. 

A lot of the characters I think are pretty obvious auto-includes--Patsy, Peter Clover (this deck has no cards above 3 cost!), Lookout, Tragic Celebrity, TRGM, Marcus. I stuck in David Pan, Tattoo Artist, and Demon Lover as ways to defeat any scary icon characters that sneak by my other defenses. Victoria Glasser is in because she's a really good two cost and arcane icons are my favorite icons.

I think the events and supports are pretty obvious too--stealing/destroying/neutralizing 3+ cost characters. Apeirophia is obviously just great, particularly because this deck (being super reactive) is hard to topdeck against. Dutch Courage is there as a possible counter to Agency/Nodens/Khopesh/Rats/whatever else wounds. Not too sure about it.

My big question for this deck was how to deal with Ancient Ones--it has quite a few good solutions, I think. Peter Clover is a guaranteed removal from the story, as this deck has nothing above 3 cost in it. David Pan can go head to head, particularly with help from Tattoo Artist and Demon Lover, who also allow the Ice Shaft to be brought into play against any AOs. The Guzheng and Cavern of Flames also work pretty well.

So far this deck has done pretty well in play-testing: I tested it against my homegrown version of the Shub-Yog Ancient One swarm and it won consistently. Admittedly, Shub Yog had neither Nodens or Nyarlathotep (as you may have noticed, I'm rather deficient in Dreamlands cards). Nodens would be pretty good agains this deck (another argument for performance artists--I could also take out Dutch Courage to accomodate them.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any thoughts anyone has about this particular deck, or any suggestions for cards added or removed. I've been kicking around the idea of Kidnapping 101 or Bound and Gagged--I'd probably go for bound and gagged since it could deal with pesky AOs like Y'Golonac in conjunction with demon lover or stop annoying character abilities.

 






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