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#1 CappyTom

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:52 AM

I've read through the rules and have not seen any Free Actions. What is a free action and is there an example?



#2 ArcticSnake

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

Check out "Night Beast" and the Squad Leader cards


Battlescribe X-Wing Miniatures Data file links:
Index.bsi file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.bsi
Index.xml file: https://dl.dropboxus...tures/index.xml

 


#3 dbmeboy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

CappyTom said:

I've read through the rules and have not seen any Free Actions. What is a free action and is there an example?

Examples were already referenced above, but to answer the first part of your question (what is a free action?): A free action is an action that does not count as a ships single action that turn.  It does not "cost" the ship their action and thus is "free."



#4 CappyTom

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

Thanks guys. This helps a lot. Great game.



#5 Inaccordance

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

I struggled with this one, too.  The punctuation makes the term a little ambiguous.  When I see the term "free action" in quotes, I think that there is a group of actions that fall under the "free action" header, or belong to that category.  On the other hand, were the term to read "actions that are free," or "free" action, or even free action (the quotes aren't necessary and may actually do more harm than good), I think to myself that there is no cost associated with the particular action in question.  Additionally, by placing quotes around the term, FFG has made it necessary to preface each and every free action case with the term "free action" in order to avoid any misunderstandings.  That's not a bad thing, necessarily.  I just forsee cases when the term isn't included and causes confusion.



#6 Kaxel Vofer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

   There are some pilots and some Elite Pilot Talents, like Push the Limit, that gives you another action, but it could not be the same that you take in first place, greettings.


"That the reward for you, don´t be so high".


Kaxel Vofer.


#7 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:42 AM

Piggybacking on here, but you still can't duplicate a previously taken action in the same turn, right? Even if it's a "free action"?

As in the following: 

  1. Dreis picks Focus for his Action, earns token.
  2. Wedge picks Focus for his Action earns token. 
  3. Wedge spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Discards token. 
  4. Dreis spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Gives token to Wedge. 
  5. Wedge spends Focus token from Dreis during a defense roll. 

That's illegal, right? 



#8 dbmeboy

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:09 AM

Cid_MCDP said:

 

Piggybacking on here, but you still can't duplicate a previously taken action in the same turn, right? Even if it's a "free action"?

As in the following: 

  1. Dreis picks Focus for his Action, earns token.
  2. Wedge picks Focus for his Action earns token. 
  3. Wedge spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Discards token. 
  4. Dreis spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Gives token to Wedge. 
  5. Wedge spends Focus token from Dreis during a defense roll. 

That's illegal, right? 

 

 

Not illegal for 2 reasons:

1. Dreis giving a focus token to Wedge is not Wedge taking a focus action.  The FAQ specifically addressed that on the first page.

2. Spending tokens is never an action.  The entire effect of the Forcus aciton is gaining a focus token, no more, no less.  Spending focus tokens in combat is completely separate from the action itself.

 

This is a different case from something that allows a free action (Push the Limit, Lando, Squad Leader, Expert Handling, etc).  In that case, you cannot take an action you've already taken that round.



#9 Inaccordance

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

dbmeboy said:

Cid_MCDP said:

 

Piggybacking on here, but you still can't duplicate a previously taken action in the same turn, right? Even if it's a "free action"?

As in the following: 

  1. Dreis picks Focus for his Action, earns token.
  2. Wedge picks Focus for his Action earns token. 
  3. Wedge spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Discards token. 
  4. Dreis spends his Focus during an Attack in the Combat Phase. Gives token to Wedge. 
  5. Wedge spends Focus token from Dreis during a defense roll. 

That's illegal, right? 

 

 

Not illegal for 2 reasons:

1. Dreis giving a focus token to Wedge is not Wedge taking a focus action.  The FAQ specifically addressed that on the first page.

2. Spending tokens is never an action.  The entire effect of the Forcus aciton is gaining a focus token, no more, no less.  Spending focus tokens in combat is completely separate from the action itself.

 

This is a different case from something that allows a free action (Push the Limit, Lando, Squad Leader, Expert Handling, etc).  In that case, you cannot take an action you've already taken that round.

 

The idea that spending tokens is not an action is a bit misleading, I think.  After all, spending something is an action and placing the token effectively notifies everyone involved that the associated ship will be able to spend the token (act) according to the rules.  Placing the token isn't the action (evade, focus, etc.) because placing the token is something the player does when the rulebook specifically says, "The ship may perform one action," they key words being "ship" and "perform."  The performance of the action is done by the ship, not the player, so in essence, the placing of the token represents a notification to all involved that the ship will be performing a certain action in the combat phase, in accordance with the rules.  Placing the token and spending the token are two phases of the same action that the ship is performing.

This is just my perspective.  If it helps to think of the action being the placing of the token and the spending of the token to be something else, then by all means, use it.  I don't think it will hinder gameplay.



#10 dbmeboy

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

Inaccordance said:

The idea that spending tokens is not an action is a bit misleading, I think.  After all, spending something is an action and placing the token effectively notifies everyone involved that the associated ship will be able to spend the token (act) according to the rules.  Placing the token isn't the action (evade, focus, etc.) because placing the token is something the player does when the rulebook specifically says, "The ship may perform one action," they key words being "ship" and "perform."  The performance of the action is done by the ship, not the player, so in essence, the placing of the token represents a notification to all involved that the ship will be performing a certain action in the combat phase, in accordance with the rules.  Placing the token and spending the token are two phases of the same action that the ship is performing.

This is just my perspective.  If it helps to think of the action being the placing of the token and the spending of the token to be something else, then by all means, use it.  I don't think it will hinder gameplay.

This is completely false.  As far as game rules are concerned, spending a token is not an action or even part of an action.  Placing a token is not the action, but placing the token is the complete result of the action.  The ship performs a Focus action and receives a Focus token.  Action done.  The token is not a marker of an action to be completed later.  Placing the token and spending the token are not two phases of the same action.  That is why a ship can gather multiple focus tokens and spend all of them in the same round.



#11 magadizer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

dbmeboy said:

Inaccordance said:

 

The idea that spending tokens is not an action is a bit misleading, I think.  After all, spending something is an action and placing the token effectively notifies everyone involved that the associated ship will be able to spend the token (act) according to the rules.  Placing the token isn't the action (evade, focus, etc.) because placing the token is something the player does when the rulebook specifically says, "The ship may perform one action," they key words being "ship" and "perform."  The performance of the action is done by the ship, not the player, so in essence, the placing of the token represents a notification to all involved that the ship will be performing a certain action in the combat phase, in accordance with the rules.  Placing the token and spending the token are two phases of the same action that the ship is performing.

This is just my perspective.  If it helps to think of the action being the placing of the token and the spending of the token to be something else, then by all means, use it.  I don't think it will hinder gameplay.

 

 

This is completely false.  As far as game rules are concerned, spending a token is not an action or even part of an action.  Placing a token is not the action, but placing the token is the complete result of the action.  The ship performs a Focus action and receives a Focus token.  Action done.  The token is not a marker of an action to be completed later.  Placing the token and spending the token are not two phases of the same action.  That is why a ship can gather multiple focus tokens and spend all of them in the same round.

Just want to back up dbmeboy, who is a very reliable source for helping people with rules interpretations. Inaccordance's "perspective" is what is misleading, here. I will agree that the idea of how the rules define the term "action" is a bit counterintuitive until you get used to it.

Nevertheless, Inaccordance should re-read the rules more carefully before posting something like this that will just add to confusion.

The example he gives is nonsense. The reason the rules refer to "ship" and not "player" is to make it clear that the action applies to that particular ship. One "player" usually has more than one "ship" and each one is activated indepently by the player.

Actions are performed in the Activation phase, unless they are free actions given by a pilot ability or other card in another stage of play.


Be seeing you.

#12 Inaccordance

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

dbmeboy said:

Inaccordance said:

 

The idea that spending tokens is not an action is a bit misleading, I think.  After all, spending something is an action and placing the token effectively notifies everyone involved that the associated ship will be able to spend the token (act) according to the rules.  Placing the token isn't the action (evade, focus, etc.) because placing the token is something the player does when the rulebook specifically says, "The ship may perform one action," they key words being "ship" and "perform."  The performance of the action is done by the ship, not the player, so in essence, the placing of the token represents a notification to all involved that the ship will be performing a certain action in the combat phase, in accordance with the rules.  Placing the token and spending the token are two phases of the same action that the ship is performing.

This is just my perspective.  If it helps to think of the action being the placing of the token and the spending of the token to be something else, then by all means, use it.  I don't think it will hinder gameplay.

 

 

This is completely false.  As far as game rules are concerned, spending a token is not an action or even part of an action.  Placing a token is not the action, but placing the token is the complete result of the action.  The ship performs a Focus action and receives a Focus token.  Action done.  The token is not a marker of an action to be completed later.  Placing the token and spending the token are not two phases of the same action.  That is why a ship can gather multiple focus tokens and spend all of them in the same round.

 

OK.  I accept that my understanding is flawed.  I'm still struggling with trying to reconcile the order of events as they occur in the game with how they would occur, say, in a movie.  You say, "Placing the token is the complete result of the action.  The ship performs a Focus action and receives a Focus token."  I think I can understand where you're coming from (I'm not sure) when you use Focus as the action.  Am I right to interpret the placing of the token indicates to all that the pilot is Focusing, not that he has Focused?  What about Evade?  How can we say the same thing, that "placing the token is the complete result of the action," that "the ship performs an Evade action and receives an Evade token" when the ship hasn't actually Evaded yet?  We might be able to say that the pilot/ship is Evading, but until he's/it's fired upon, he/it hasn't technically Evaded?  This is the part that confuses me.  I thought I had it figured out.



#13 chrisdk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

If it is any help:

 

Try to differentiate between "perform an action", "receiving a token" and "spending a token" as game terms and "focusing", "taking evasive action" and similar stuff as narrative terms.

 

The game terms have very specific timing and meaning, so in game terms the "action" is completed in the "perform action step" and the result is that he receives a token.

 

In narrative terms, the pilot is concentrating more on what's going on around him (focusing) and that way he manages to make that critical shot or evade that dangerous blast. Since this causes him to fly in certain unusual patterns, it is also visible to other pilots that he is doing that, hence the marker as a reminder and sign for it.

Or he is doing evasive maneuvers, and the token serves as a reminder that that ship is not just standing around nice and quite on the board, but in all reality is swerving left, right and all over the place and is concentrating on doing that so much, that it is doing it more than all the others are narratively expected to do it.

 

Once you mix up narrative and game terms too much you will run into a few problems of understanding, so as I said, maybe consciously differentiating between the two helps you.



#14 ziggy2000

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

Inaccordance said:

 

OK.  I accept that my understanding is flawed.  I'm still struggling with trying to reconcile the order of events as they occur in the game with how they would occur, say, in a movie.  You say, "Placing the token is the complete result of the action.  The ship performs a Focus action and receives a Focus token."  I think I can understand where you're coming from (I'm not sure) when you use Focus as the action.  Am I right to interpret the placing of the token indicates to all that the pilot is Focusing, not that he has Focused?  What about Evade?  How can we say the same thing, that "placing the token is the complete result of the action," that "the ship performs an Evade action and receives an Evade token" when the ship hasn't actually Evaded yet?  We might be able to say that the pilot/ship is Evading, but until he's/it's fired upon, he/it hasn't technically Evaded?  This is the part that confuses me.  I thought I had it figured out.

chrisdk has the right idea, and I'm going to try to expand on it.

I'm not sure how I'm going to approach this. First of all, it's a game, not a movie. There are certain abstractions that must take place that may not be exactly consistent with the linear flow of reality. But I'll try.

You are piloting your ship. You know you are going to be engaging the enemy. You know where you are going but you are not sure what your adversaries' intents are. You must make a choice.

If you think, "I have a chance to take a shot, but I may be putting myself into danger", you will "focus" your attention on being able to take advantage if the offensive opportunity presents itself, but ready to defend yourself if needed.

If you think "Holy crap, I'm going to take a lot of fire soon, I'll be lucky to get a shot off", then you will be prepared to "evade" as necessary, and hope that you can survive to make an attack.

In each case you are prepared to the best of your ability. This is "taking your action". After all moves have taken place and the combat begins to resolve, then your "preparations" are "spent" as necessary.

You may be able, if you are "focused", to take out that target you were concentrating on. But that other guy over there may have a better shot at you.

If you couldn't take out your target, then you can "focus" on not getting hit by the return fire.

If you're able to successfully "evade" an attack, you may be able to get a good shot off. Or you may have to "evade" after getting in a shot.

The point is, you prepare yourself by taking an "action", and subsequently "spend" it (or not) as needed.

I hope this helps.

 



#15 Inaccordance

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

Thanks, gents.  Your examples help greatly.  It takes a little mind bending to get around the tenses used in the language (i.e. focused vs. is focused vs. has focused vs. is focusing), but I think I've got it.



#16 dbmeboy

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:18 AM

Inaccordance said:

Thanks, gents.  Your examples help greatly.  It takes a little mind bending to get around the tenses used in the language (i.e. focused vs. is focused vs. has focused vs. is focusing), but I think I've got it.

No problem.  Sorry if my response to you was overly harsh before (it sure looks harsh to me in retrospect). 

To make the language stuff harder: we as players often use the terms loosely when talking about the game because being completely technically correct is often much more wordy and most of the time doesn't impact clarity.  That's why I try to stay very technical when dealing with rules questions though: to avoid confusion with wording (not that I'm always successful…).



#17 dvang

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:09 AM

An action might generate a token, like focus, target lock, or evade.

Using or Spending a token is not an action, though.

An action is either listed on the ship's Action Bar, or else is labeled with "Action:" or otherwise identified as an Action in its description.



#18 SteveSpikes

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:26 AM

Forgive me if this has already been addressed.  My question is what is, if any, the order you need to perform a free action?  The question stems from the errata (ver. 1.0 -- Updated 10/23/2012) for the upgrade, Expert Handling, which now states, "Action: Perform a free barrel roll action.  If you do not have [Barrel Roll] action icon, receive 1 stress token.  You may remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship."

If you are able to chose the order in which you perform actions, I believe you may be able to perform your normal action before you perform any free action, thus retaining the former if the free action results in gaining a stress token.



#19 dbmeboy

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:32 AM

SteveSpikes said:

Forgive me if this has already been addressed.  My question is what is, if any, the order you need to perform a free action?  The question stems from the errata (ver. 1.0 -- Updated 10/23/2012) for the upgrade, Expert Handling, which now states, "Action: Perform a free barrel roll action.  If you do not have [Barrel Roll] action icon, receive 1 stress token.  You may remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship."

If you are able to chose the order in which you perform actions, I believe you may be able to perform your normal action before you perform any free action, thus retaining the former if the free action results in gaining a stress token.

I'm not sure what your question is here.  Note that Expert Handling itself is an action (and would thus be your normal action to use it).  As a part of that action, you will perform a free barrel roll action.



#20 Inaccordance

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

dbmeboy said:

Inaccordance said:

 

Thanks, gents.  Your examples help greatly.  It takes a little mind bending to get around the tenses used in the language (i.e. focused vs. is focused vs. has focused vs. is focusing), but I think I've got it.

 

 

No problem.  Sorry if my response to you was overly harsh before (it sure looks harsh to me in retrospect). 

To make the language stuff harder: we as players often use the terms loosely when talking about the game because being completely technically correct is often much more wordy and most of the time doesn't impact clarity.  That's why I try to stay very technical when dealing with rules questions though: to avoid confusion with wording (not that I'm always successful…).

 

No worries at all.  I try not to take what anyone, including myself, says in text too seriously.  I find what we say is often misunderstood or communicated poorly.  I can't tell you how many times I've reread my own words and found this to be the case.  This thread is a solid example.  Regardless, it sounds like we're of a similar mind when it comes to using correct language. 

Thanks again for the help.






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