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Star Wars and Party sheet


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#1 Yepesnopes

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:52 AM

 Does any of you know if the new star wars has something similar to the party sheet of wfrpg3? but something that actually contributes to the game instead of being pointles?

Cheers,

Yepes


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#2 New Zombie

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:35 AM

 well, i personally disagree with your opinion about the usefulness of the party sheet in WFRP3, however, star wars has no party sheet mechanic. the nearest comparison would be the obligation system. (caveat, i don't own the beta so am basing this on interviews and information on this website).

At the start of each session, the Game Master randomly determines if someone’s Obligation will be “triggered,” and if so, whose. Will that pesky Bounty Hunter make another attempt to capture you, interrupting your delicate mission? Will your pilot’s addiction flare up when you need him focused? Or, will simple stress over your doctor’s criminal record on Nar Shaddaa leave everyone a bit preoccupied?

i  believe there is a mechanic that prevents players from spending XP if the party obligation is too high as well.



#3 gruntl

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:14 AM

New Zombie said:

 well, i personally disagree with your opinion about the usefulness of the party sheet in WFRP3, however, star wars has no party sheet mechanic. the nearest comparison would be the obligation system. (caveat, i don't own the beta so am basing this on interviews and information on this website).

At the start of each session, the Game Master randomly determines if someone’s Obligation will be “triggered,” and if so, whose. Will that pesky Bounty Hunter make another attempt to capture you, interrupting your delicate mission? Will your pilot’s addiction flare up when you need him focused? Or, will simple stress over your doctor’s criminal record on Nar Shaddaa leave everyone a bit preoccupied?

i  believe there is a mechanic that prevents players from spending XP if the party obligation is too high as well.

I also don't agree that the party sheets are useless. They give a sense of cohesion and a theme to the party, even though the mechanical benefits/drawbacks are quite small.  

The obligation system in EotE is not the same at all. Obligations are more like system implemented plot hooks, that the GM can use to bring more personal stories to the table. Players take obligations when creating their characters and get additional starting XP for it (for example, one obligation might be that there is a bounty on the character). Mechanically they work like this (in brief): for each session one of the players obligation is triggered, and that player then takes one strain to represent the obligation taking its toll. If the total value of the players obligation is above 100, the party needs to bring it down before being able to spend XP. Obligation can be reduced and increased in play.



#4 Yepesnopes

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

Thanks for the informati

gruntl said:

 

I also don't agree that the party sheets are useless. They give a sense of cohesion and a theme to the party, even though the mechanical benefits/drawbacks are quite small.  

 

 

1) The soketing talent is a pure board game mechanic which normally does not promote any role play, and if it does it slows down (further) the game or ends up with the player repeating over and over again the same formula that worked once.

2) The players tend to forget the party ability.

3) The tension meter…well the tension meter is marginal use. Moreover, when you trigger and event its effects have hardly ever any relation to the situation that triggered the effect.

You don't need a party sheet for the fortune pool, neither to give your party of players a name, a common goal or anything like this.


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#5 valvorik

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

I agree with what Yepesnopes laid out and have seen that at my table.

I love the idea of the party card.  The collective identity and way to explain/encourage taking inspiration and sharing talents from others is great.  I love rules for collectively run starships or magical covenants (ars magica) and wanted to love the party card but it fell short.

I tried my own variant (see blog linked) but haven't found it really doing the job either.

Rob



#6 Yepesnopes

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:07 AM

 Just to make it clear, I am a fan of the Party Sheet Idea, that is why I was asking if there was something like this in the new Star Wars. It is just that the Party Sheet in wfrpg 3 feels flat to me.


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#7 New Zombie

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:16 AM

gruntl said:

The obligation system in EotE is not the same at all. Obligations are more like system implemented plot hooks, that the GM can use to bring more personal stories to the table. Players take obligations when creating their characters and get additional starting XP for it (for example, one obligation might be that there is a bounty on the character). Mechanically they work like this (in brief): for each session one of the players obligation is triggered, and that player then takes one strain to represent the obligation taking its toll. If the total value of the players obligation is above 100, the party needs to bring it down before being able to spend XP. Obligation can be reduced and increased in play.

the comparison to the party sheet (for me) this that both obligation and the party sheet are mechanics that influence internal party dynamics.



#8 New Zombie

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

Yepesnopes said:

You don't need a party sheet for the fortune pool.
with regard to the fortune pool, in edge of the empire it is replaced with the destiny pool.

each session starts with all players rolling the force die, with light and dark side results being tallied up.  the results comprise the session's "destiny pool," which remains constant throughout that session. if the players spend a light side point, it becomes available to the GM as a dark side point. this is brilliant as it replaces the WFRP3 A/C/E system, which reduces the accounting for the GM.



#9 Yepesnopes

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

New Zombie said:


with regard to the fortune pool, in edge of the empire it is replaced with the destiny pool.

 

each session starts with all players rolling the force die, with light and dark side results being tallied up.  the results comprise the session's "destiny pool," which remains constant throughout that session. if the players spend a light side point, it becomes available to the GM as a dark side point. this is brilliant as it replaces the WFRP3 A/C/E system, which reduces the accounting for the GM.

Sounds very interesting.

By the way, In Star Wars do NPCs have a any sort of character sheet? or again they do not have skills, talents… as in wfrpg 3

Thanks for the info

Yepes 


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#10 gruntl

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:02 PM

New Zombie said:

Yepesnopes said:

You don't need a party sheet for the fortune pool.

with regard to the fortune pool, in edge of the empire it is replaced with the destiny pool.

 

each session starts with all players rolling the force die, with light and dark side results being tallied up.  the results comprise the session's "destiny pool," which remains constant throughout that session. if the players spend a light side point, it becomes available to the GM as a dark side point. this is brilliant as it replaces the WFRP3 A/C/E system, which reduces the accounting for the GM.

Yeah, I really like that mechanic too.

As to the party sheets in 3e, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think the sheets are mindblowing either, and could probably be implemented a lot better, but they add something to our table, so we use them, *shrug. A purely mechanical benefit is not a bad thing to me, unless it really detracts from roleplaying. 

No info on SW NPCs, I don't have the book, and I'm only a player in our game. 



#11 GoblynKing

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

i don't believe Star Wars has a party sheet to speak of. Though I could see the idea being easily implemented in the future…even integrating the Obligation mechanic that was spoken of above would be pretty simple.

I personally love the Party Card mechanic in WFRP and have even homebrewed a couple of my own cards for our group. They're currently using the card Diplomatic Envoys for a mission they're on for Ashaffenburg to the nearby Karak, an attempt to bolster political ties with the dwarves.

I ride the tension meter non-stop when the party is traveling together…using it as a gauge of how their journey is going overall….so if there's bad weather, or poor accommodations, the tension goes up! If they're traveling through an area with Chaos taint, the meter goes up. I basically keep stress and fatigue pouring into the party from various sources during play…it's a rare moment that the group has no Wounds, Stress, Fatigue, of Corruption to recover from. This is a grim and perilous world, so it seems fitting.

I've also used the party card to inflict Conditions on the entire troupe, and have considered getting them to track food/water supplies using different colored tokens placed on the card (we use blue glass beads for tracking Fortune Points) on especially long journeys. I've even toyed with the idea of inflicting Corruption onto the Party Card during certain situations as well…a concept taken from the One Ring rpg….when the tension meter peaks for instance, instead of resetting it could just sit there and a Corruption point could be placed on the Party Card, the only way to get rid of it, drive the meter back down by resting and carousing ….this would represent issues of trust within the party, the strengthening and weakening of the Parties cohesion.

Anyway, there are just some ideas on how to more fully integrate the Party Card into your game, none of which require much work or any severe rules hacking.

The other great thing about the Party Card mechanic, and a lot of other mechanics for instance (I'm looking at you A/C/E), is that if you don't like'em, they're pretty modular and easily removed from the game without breaking the rules. I'm seriously thinking of replacing A/C/E with the dark side/light side points mechanic from SW:EotE…every time a PC spends a Fortune Point, I (the GM) get Chaos Point (bad guy Fortune/Expertise).

 



#12 New Zombie

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:51 AM

Yepesnopes said:

By the way, In Star Wars do NPCs have a any sort of character sheet? or again they do not have skills, talents… as in wfrpg 3

they don't have cards if that is what you are asking, they are presented as a stat block in the book. i asked about adversaries a while back on the EotE fourms and received this reply:

cparadis said:


They are typically presented as follows:

Name [a rating of either minion, henchman, or nemesis]
A short description of the adversary
Characteristics
Skills
Talents - with a brief description
Abilities - with a brief description
Equipment - with a brief description
Minions are adversaries that the PCs can mow through quickly, they only have skills when acting in groups and a single critical wound can finish one off. Henchmen provide slightly more challenge and may have skills, but are still not quite the level of a PC and any strain they suffer is converted to wounds. Finally, nemesis NPCs are basically the same as PCs and follow almost all the same rules with regard to Critical Injury, strain, etc.

now, i'm not sure what 'abilities' are, perhaps one of the other posters in this thread can enlighten us



#13 Yepesnopes

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:42 AM

 Thanks for the replies so far guys.

@Newzombie: Looks like from what you say that NPCs are a bit more defined in Star Wars than in wfrpg 3. Aparently they have skills and talents, abilities etc. I like it because for me it is a bit of head ache to figure out every time which actions to give to NPCs or if the NPC has to have skills or not. Thanks for the answer.

@Goblin King: I did away with A/C/E budgets in my games some time ago and replaced them by skills on lower tier NPCs like soldiers and townsfolk. I am already a fan of your idea of the Fortune Point / Chaos Point balance! I am going to ask my players to try it next game, it sounds as it can be a lot of fun.

 

Cheers,

Yepes


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Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE





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