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Defined Magic Projection Metamagic and defense


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#1 denaekall

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:18 PM

This came up in a recent game: a wizard mentalist with the defined magic projection metamagic was attacked by a creature with surprise against him. By our (myself and my fellow players) the defined projection metamagic is counted as the final roll with no modifiers applying to it. Now, would this mean that someone using this metamagic would not suffer the penalties for surprise? Alternatively, would the player not be able to use the metamagic because they were surprised? Thoughts?



#2 Raybras

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:35 PM

in theory, he still has to spend the zeon every time he uses this metamagic, so it is not free even if it is a daily maintained spell.



#3 denaekall

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

Yes, but can he still use it if Surprised?



#4 Beadle

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

 I don't really see why it would be any different to any other situation.  So if surprised, they can still act on against any characters who HAVEN'T got surprise on them, or use metamagic on themselves.



#5 F3nr1s

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:32 AM

 I wouldn't allow to use metamagic on oneself to counter a surprise-action. If someone, who could block an attack, but hasn't draw his weapon at the moment, couldn't draw the weapon to block an attack from someone who has surprised him.

Also a wizard, who is surprised, couldn't cast a defense spell on himself, to counter an attack. but If he has already cast the spell, he could use it to defense himself, with the surprise penalty.

Therefore: If the metamagic is "maintained", then I would allow it, but if it would be "cast" in this round, it could only be cast after the actions of surprising enemy, and so couldn't be used against the surprising enemy.

So long,



#6 Beadle

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:44 AM

 I absolutely agree with that.  It can't be used to defend himself against an attacker with Surprise, but there's a whole load of other things he could cast on himself.



#7 Beadle

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:10 AM

Beadle said:

 I absolutely agree with that.  It can't be used to defend himself against an attacker with Surprise, but there's a whole load of other things he could cast on himself.

Actually, what am I talking about?  Of course you can use whatever you want to DEFEND yourself against an attacker with Surprise.  You just a) pay the -90 penalty for doing so, and b) can't attack him.



#8 F3nr1s

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:55 AM

Beadle said:

Beadle said:

 

 I absolutely agree with that.  It can't be used to defend himself against an attacker with Surprise, but there's a whole load of other things he could cast on himself.

 

 

Actually, what am I talking about?  Of course you can use whatever you want to DEFEND yourself against an attacker with Surprise.  You just a) pay the -90 penalty for doing so, and b) can't attack him.

 

No, you can't. You can only use, what is prepared beforehand. For example, you can't draw a weapon to block a surprise attack (is stated on page 84 in the core book, section about "Drawing Weapon").

Okay, with magic could be something different, because I can't remember a rule like this for supernatural shields, but my groups play it like this: If someone is surprised he can't even make passive actions in response to the surprising enemy.

So long,



#9 denaekall

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

That was my ruling on it as well, but I just wanted to see how others would look at the issue. Thanks.






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