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#1 Baphomet69

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:20 AM

 Has anyone else had balance issues with the game? A friend and myself played several games this past Sunday and the Imperials won every time. You could chalk it up to my stellar piloting (;p), but we switched sides back and forth (I didnt want my opponent to dislike the game after one or two tries). Still, Empire won every time. Our last game I was Empire again, eight TIE Fighters (4 Academy, 4 Obsidian). He was using three X-Wings and two Y-Wings with various upgrades (yes, he was over on points by 20-30, we realized later), but that only makes my point worse. Most of my ships ended up damaged, but I didn't lose any.

Even when I played Rebels (smaller games), the Empire won.

However, I haven't seen any claims of imbalance, though I have seen some folks say the Rebels are powerful (?!). So why is our experience so different than most other people's?

 



#2 ScottieATF

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:26 AM

Baphomet69 said:

 Has anyone else had balance issues with the game? A friend and myself played several games this past Sunday and the Imperials won every time. You could chalk it up to my stellar piloting (;p), but we switched sides back and forth (I didnt want my opponent to dislike the game after one or two tries). Still, Empire won every time. Our last game I was Empire again, eight TIE Fighters (4 Academy, 4 Obsidian). He was using three X-Wings and two Y-Wings with various upgrades (yes, he was over on points by 20-30, we realized later), but that only makes my point worse. Most of my ships ended up damaged, but I didn't lose any.

Even when I played Rebels (smaller games), the Empire won.

However, I haven't seen any claims of imbalance, though I have seen some folks say the Rebels are powerful (?!). So why is our experience so different than most other people's?

 

They key from the little information gathered is it seems that the Rebel side is spreading his fire over multiple TiEs.  That would very much explain why. That is the exact last thing a player can afford to do against TiEs especially the TiE swarm. 

I have played 16 100 point games.  15 of them as the Rebels.  I've won 13 of those games.  So from a certain point of view I'm sure I have friends saying the opposite.



#3 Harleequin

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

You guys probably just don't know how to utilyze the rebels as well. They both aren't just go straight forward and attack, the imperials would probably win each time with that. You need rebel specific tactics



#4 DavicusPrime

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:15 AM

I've been playing the game with my son and haven't lost a game regardless of which faction I'm using.  The fact that my son is only 9 is probably the main reason, but there have been some very close games, most of them when I was playing Imperials.

I was actually expecting the rebels to have a hard time taking down the imps when I finally got a chance to try them out just because of the Imp's number advantage.  Turns out rebs are very good at killing TIE's.  You've got to focus fire from multiple ships on one target as often as possible.  In this game, a ship with one hull point left is pretty much just as dangerous as one at full strength, excepting the occasional critical effect.  So don't forget rule #2: Double Tap!

Also, never underestimate the potential for a cheap Y with an Ion Cannon.  A single hit on a TIE feels kinda weak, but losing a turn of maneuvering will mess up their attempts to coordinate their attacks.  With asteroids and ships at table edges, they become even more annoying and potentially lethal.

-DavicusPrime



#5 cleardave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:30 AM

ScottieATF said:

Baphomet69 said:

 

 Has anyone else had balance issues with the game? A friend and myself played several games this past Sunday and the Imperials won every time. You could chalk it up to my stellar piloting (;p), but we switched sides back and forth (I didnt want my opponent to dislike the game after one or two tries). Still, Empire won every time. Our last game I was Empire again, eight TIE Fighters (4 Academy, 4 Obsidian). He was using three X-Wings and two Y-Wings with various upgrades (yes, he was over on points by 20-30, we realized later), but that only makes my point worse. Most of my ships ended up damaged, but I didn't lose any.

Even when I played Rebels (smaller games), the Empire won.

However, I haven't seen any claims of imbalance, though I have seen some folks say the Rebels are powerful (?!). So why is our experience so different than most other people's?

 

 

 

They key from the little information gathered is it seems that the Rebel side is spreading his fire over multiple TiEs.  That would very much explain why. That is the exact last thing a player can afford to do against TiEs especially the TiE swarm. 

I have played 16 100 point games.  15 of them as the Rebels.  I've won 13 of those games.  So from a certain point of view I'm sure I have friends saying the opposite.

ScottieATF said:

So from a certain point of view I'm sure I have friends saying the opposite.

Did anyone else kind of feel like Bill Clinton was a big Obi Wan Kenobi fan when he had to give all those testimonials under oath?

Anyways, I don't think there's really a cry for imbalance, you just have to recognize that in many ways, the game is asymmetrical in nature.  You can't play Imperials the same way you'd play Rebels.  The closest thing, in terms of ship stats, would be squads of TIE Advanced vs X-Wings;

Same;

Similar maneuver dial

Focus, Target Lock, Elite Talent upgrade cards (on certain pilots)

Same Hull/Shield Rating

Different;

X-Wing is Attack 3/Agility 2

TIE Advanced is Attack 2/Agility 3

X-Wings get Proton Torpedos and Astromechs

TIE Advanced get Cluster Missiles/Concussion Missiles

TIE Advanced can also Barrel Roll and Evade

So even with a comparable "frame", both ships have dramatically different options to execute each turn, and you just need to leverage them correctly.

I think there are some "cheap" combos, like Luke/R2 and Vader/Marksmanship/Cluster Missiles, but both sides have their killer setups, so I don't think its game breaking.  It could potentially be a problem at a tournament, if you are limited in options by the ships you bought, for instance only buying TIE Fighters as the Empire, and never picking up a TIE Advanced, but assuming you had access to all the ships/cards in a 100pt match, you'll be able to have an answer for anything on paper.

With TIE's, I find that oversaturating the Rebels with multiple targets is great, because even though your ship is more fragile, the Rebels won't have as many craft to shoot you down.  Even in a 2-1 chicken match, both your TIE's can't be shot down, so you'll still have something to answer with.  Try and create situations where you force a wounded Rebel ship to engage in a head-on with a pair of TIE's and don't be scared to send one of the members of the Emperor's "Entire Legion of Best Troops" to a fiery death, because there's plenty more where that came from, but an X-Wing off the board is a huge loss.

With Rebels, you really do need to focus on concentrating your firepower on taking one TIE out a time.  Spreading around 10 points of damage over 5 TIE Fighters still leaves 5 TIE Fighters to kill you, barring any interesting Critical Hit results, where if you concentrate it on a couple of ships, you can remove a couple of them and start tipping the odds in your favour.  TIE Fighters are in trouble in a 1-on-1 match against X-Wings, so make sure that if you're in a battle of attrition, you're staying well ahead in terms of damage output, because your limited numbers will sink you fast if you don't watch it.

My advice, from an Imperial perspective, is don't look at something like Luke/R2 as a priority target.  R2 and Luke's pilot text are defensive actions.  The only thing he could do, offensively is use a Elite card like Marksmanship, or Torpedos to be an attacking threat, but overall, it's nothing you can't handle with Evade.  If you focus on taking out the non-Luke ships first, the Rebel player isn't making use of Luke's best asset, which is R2's shield regeneration ability, because you aren't bothering to attack it, and Luke's defensive pilot ability similarly goes to waste.  When he's all alone, Yavin-style, then you bring your superior numbers to focus on him and send him packing.  There'll be no Han to save him…yet

I think on the Rebel side, Wedge is your friend, as he can cut into TIE Agility with his pilot skill, so he should be your point man in focusing on taking out the TIES.  For a TIE Advanced, pair him up with another X-Wing that is running torpedoes but with lower pilot skill.  Have Wedge soften the target's shields up, ideally removing them, and then use your other X-Wing to Torpedo it into oblivion.  Those critical hits can make mopping up a lot easier.  I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

Speaking of that, where are you, Toronto players?!



#6 DavicusPrime

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:45 AM

cleardave said:

I think on the Rebel side, Wedge is your friend, as he can cut into TIE Agility with his pilot skill, so he should be your point man in focusing on taking out the TIES.  For a TIE Advanced, pair him up with another X-Wing that is running torpedoes but with lower pilot skill.  Have Wedge soften the target's shields up, ideally removing them, and then use your other X-Wing to Torpedo it into oblivion.  Those critical hits can make mopping up a lot easier.  I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

For rebels, my favored droid is R2-F2.  Wedge's special is offensive in nature.  Give him an extra Defense Die through R2-F2 and he becomes a double threat that is available against attacks the whole turn, not just once as with Focus tokens.

In smaller games a cheap Y with an I-Cannon is a game changer.  I had a TIE adv and 2 TIEs vs a Y w/ I-Cannon and an X-Wing.  The X and TIE Adv kept each other busy while the Y picked away at the TIEs.  He successfully kept me from being able to bring both my TIEs to bear at the same time.  And after a few rounds, I was forced to take Evasion as my action just to avoid taking that third hit from the Ion Cannons.

-DavicusPrime



#7 ArcticSnake

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:18 AM

ScottieATF said:

Baphomet69 said:

 

 Has anyone else had balance issues with the game? A friend and myself played several games this past Sunday and the Imperials won every time. You could chalk it up to my stellar piloting (;p), but we switched sides back and forth (I didnt want my opponent to dislike the game after one or two tries). Still, Empire won every time. Our last game I was Empire again, eight TIE Fighters (4 Academy, 4 Obsidian). He was using three X-Wings and two Y-Wings with various upgrades (yes, he was over on points by 20-30, we realized later), but that only makes my point worse. Most of my ships ended up damaged, but I didn't lose any.

Even when I played Rebels (smaller games), the Empire won.

However, I haven't seen any claims of imbalance, though I have seen some folks say the Rebels are powerful (?!). So why is our experience so different than most other people's?

 

 

 

They key from the little information gathered is it seems that the Rebel side is spreading his fire over multiple TiEs.  That would very much explain why. That is the exact last thing a player can afford to do against TiEs especially the TiE swarm. 

I have played 16 100 point games.  15 of them as the Rebels.  I've won 13 of those games.  So from a certain point of view I'm sure I have friends saying the opposite.

What you say is true… from a certain point of view.


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#8 crimzonteerz

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

cleardave said:

I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

Speaking of that, where are you, Toronto players?!

 

I'm from Toronto. Just picked up the game on Sunday from Meeplemart and they were sold out of Y-Wings! I need that ship.



#9 cleardave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:42 PM

crimzonteerz said:

cleardave said:

 

I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

Speaking of that, where are you, Toronto players?!

 

 

 

I'm from Toronto. Just picked up the game on Sunday from Meeplemart and they were sold out of Y-Wings! I need that ship.

When they said they were sold out, did you reply, "I want that ship…not excuses"?

I typically do my shopping at Heavy Support on the west end.  Same kind of deals, but since I live out that way, it's smarter than driving out that way.  Check in with 401 games on Yonge Street as well, if you need another source.  If I'm looking for something that I want in a "need now" capacity, I usually just phone those three, using Meeplemart as the last resort, and see who has what I'm after.

I hope you bought two Core Sets.  Since the expansion ships were so scarce, it was an easy way for me to double my model count quickly, as well as give me an extra set of dice.  As if 3 of each colour was going to be enough.



#10 El_Tonio

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

Interesting as I thought it was slightly out of balance in favor of Rebels. Maybe that means it's pretty balanced after all.  I look forward to playing a few more games to see how things pan out. 



#11 Baphomet69

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:09 PM

crimzonteerz said:

 

cleardave said:

 

I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

Speaking of that, where are you, Toronto players?!

 

 

 

I'm from Toronto. Just picked up the game on Sunday from Meeplemart and they were sold out of Y-Wings! I need that ship.

 

 

Did you try Force Choke to make sure they weren't hiding any in the back of the store?

 

*bats eyeashes*



#12 crimzonteerz

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:28 PM

cleardave said:

crimzonteerz said:

 

cleardave said:

 

I don't have too much practical experience with the Y-Wing yet, as these ship expansions are just flying off the shelves in Toronto.

Speaking of that, where are you, Toronto players?!

 

 

 

I'm from Toronto. Just picked up the game on Sunday from Meeplemart and they were sold out of Y-Wings! I need that ship.

 

 

When they said they were sold out, did you reply, "I want that ship…not excuses"?

I typically do my shopping at Heavy Support on the west end.  Same kind of deals, but since I live out that way, it's smarter than driving out that way.  Check in with 401 games on Yonge Street as well, if you need another source.  If I'm looking for something that I want in a "need now" capacity, I usually just phone those three, using Meeplemart as the last resort, and see who has what I'm after.

I hope you bought two Core Sets.  Since the expansion ships were so scarce, it was an easy way for me to double my model count quickly, as well as give me an extra set of dice.  As if 3 of each colour was going to be enough.

cleardave said:

 

When they said they were sold out, did you reply, "I want that ship…not excuses"?

 

Lol. That would have been classic.

 

cleardave said:

I typically do my shopping at Heavy Support on the west end. Same kind of deals, but since I live out that way, it's smarter than driving out that way. Check in with 401 games on Yonge Street as well, if you need another source. If I'm looking for something that I want in a "need now" capacity, I usually just phone those three, using Meeplemart as the last resort, and see who has what I'm after.

I hope you bought two Core Sets. Since the expansion ships were so scarce, it was an easy way for me to double my model count quickly, as well as give me an extra set of dice. As if 3 of each colour was going to be enough.

 

I called Heavy support and they are sold out of Y-Wings as well. I'll check out 401 games. I have never been to Meeplemart before and I gotta say I was impressed by the store and the guy running it was very nice.

 

I indeed did buy 2 core sets. This game has got me back into "the hobby" after a looong hiatus and I did my due diligence before buying X-Wing. Personally the lack of dice per core set is a little suspect imho. But other than that I'm impressed with the quality of this game. I've already decided to custom paint my X-Wings as members of Rogue squadron :)

 

I also bought one of each expansion except for the Y-Wing. If I end up enjoying this game as much as I think I will, I might just "have to" buy 4 Y-Wings to try out the Gold squadron build haha.

 



#13 cleardave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

crimzonteerz said:

I also bought one of each expansion except for the Y-Wing. If I end up enjoying this game as much as I think I will, I might just "have to" buy 4 Y-Wings to try out the Gold squadron build haha.

 

I can't wait for the Falcon so we can re-enact the Hoth asteroid field sequence from Empire.



#14 crimzonteerz

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:48 PM

cleardave said:

 

 

I can't wait for the Falcon so we can re-enact the Hoth asteroid field sequence from Empire.

 

Ya that will be something and look great on the tabletop with these awesome models.



#15 qwertyuiop

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:47 PM

cleardave said:

crimzonteerz said:

 

I also bought one of each expansion except for the Y-Wing. If I end up enjoying this game as much as I think I will, I might just "have to" buy 4 Y-Wings to try out the Gold squadron build haha.

 

 

 

I can't wait for the Falcon so we can re-enact the Hoth asteroid field sequence from Empire.

Only if you have the John Williams score playing for effect. 

Are you also unable to locate Y-wings online?  How can we make NAFTA work for you?  I just picked up my second. I'm not convinced that the Advanced is an answer to the Y-Wing like I've seen mentioned on the boards.



#16 cleardave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

qwertyuiop said:

Only if you have the John Williams score playing for effect. 

Are you also unable to locate Y-wings online?  How can we make NAFTA work for you?  I just picked up my second. I'm not convinced that the Advanced is an answer to the Y-Wing like I've seen mentioned on the boards.

Not only will I have that handy, but I also have this on deck;

javascript:void(0);/*1348724521065*/

You're welcome.



#17 niceas

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:06 AM

qwertyuiop said:

Are you also unable to locate Y-wings online?  How can we make NAFTA work for you?  I just picked up my second. I'm not convinced that the Advanced is an answer to the Y-Wing like I've seen mentioned on the boards.

Personally, I've found a TIE/a w/ cluster missiles to be a very effective solution to a Y-Wing, especially if you've knocked off a point or two of shields first



#18 DavicusPrime

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:40 AM

My solution to Y-Wings…  Kill it quickly with as many TIEs as you can.  1 Agility means even a Range 2 or 3 shot has a reasonable chance of a single hit.   And at Range 3, they can't really hit back with any effectiveness.  If you can keep 4 TIEs on it, you'll paper cut it to death in two turns.

I've pretty much left the opponent's Y alone until I took out the Xs then come back with everything I've got and lots of evasion tokens.  This can work okay especially if you can get the Xs to break off from the Y.  And other games I've gone after the Y first.  But the Fire power of the X's make them higher priority for me.

Other options are to get a bruiser like Mithel inside Range 1 and those shields go away right quick.  And Backstabber is very effective even out at Range 3.  Since Y's don't turn very well its pretty easy for Backstabber to get his bonus attack die.

Just chasing one around with one or two TIEs is not going to be effective.  You'll be chasing it the whole game while the X's are chewing up the rest of your squadron.

Missiles are a gamble, but can greatly reduce the time it takes to kill one.

-DavicusPrime



#19 crimzonteerz

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

cleardave said:

 

cleardave said:

 Check in with 401 games on Yonge Street as well, if you need another source.  If I'm looking for something that I want in a "need now" capacity, I usually just phone those three, using Meeplemart as the last resort, and see who has what I'm after.

 

Thanks for the tip Cleardave. I stopped in today and got 2 Y-Wings @ 401 Yonge as they were just upacking a new shipment. Lucky me :) They were conviced that they would sell all the Y-Wings by tonight as there were very few.



#20 Parakitor

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

cleardave said:

qwertyuiop said:

 

Only if you have the John Williams score playing for effect. 

Are you also unable to locate Y-wings online?  How can we make NAFTA work for you?  I just picked up my second. I'm not convinced that the Advanced is an answer to the Y-Wing like I've seen mentioned on the boards.

 

 

Not only will I have that handy, but I also have this on deck;

javascript:void(0);/*1348724521065*/

You're welcome.

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