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What's the deal with these here hammers in Into the Storm?


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#1 Géza!

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:34 AM

So, I was reading Into the Storm, looking at some exotic weapons for purposes of providing my players with crazy loot, when I stumbled upon these two different hammers, finding both of them pretty damn cool….

First was the Inertial Hammer

Found mostly in the ruins of
several ancient dead worlds
surrounding the Cauldron, the
so-called Inertial Hammers have very
long haft, nearly shoulder high (leaving some
to believe the xenos race that created them
were taller than normal humans). The head is
a dead black colour, flaring into a huge flat
striking surface at one end. The other end is
surrounded by what are thought to be power
cables and the esoteric engines that drive
the device. When swung, the head seems to
gather inertial energy exponentially, so the
weapon seems lighter and swings more easily
the further it moves. On impact the inertia is
transformed into kinetic energy, allowing it to
strike in a single arc with enough concussive
force to rupture a tank hull.
If the user performs an All Out Attack
Action with this weapon, the weapon deals an
additional 1d10+3 I damage (for 2d10+10
total). This weapon requires two hands to use.

And then there is the Macro-Hammer

These puissant archeotech weapons are
thought to date back to the Dark Ages of
Technology. However, thus far they have
only been discovered on a long-lost city-cache hidden amongst the ruins of the war-world of Zayth. The Disciples of Thule seized the majority
of the weapons, though a few have found their hands into
other members of the Machine Cult in the Koronus Expanse.
Glowing with circuit-runes, the ancient tech-relic mounts a
suitably large hammer head covered with nano-sized warp
portals which burst open on contact. The impact of the portals
creates intense, localised warp disruptions, causing micro-explosions which devastate the enemy. Like many human
designs, its visage is intended to intimidate and cower all who
would stand before the righteous might of the Imperium and
the Machine God. This weapon requires two hands to use.

A hammer that makes Warp explosions? Bloody hell, this is crazy, I thought, looking at the page with weapon stats immediately to see what damage this beauty deals…

 

And here I was, thinking that can't be right. The ARCHAEOTECH_WARP_EXPLOSION_HAMMER_OF_DOOM does less damage than an ordinary Thunder Hammer? And said hammer of doom is less rare than just-some-alien-hammer?

Then I noticed another strange detail. The Inertial Hammer is written to deal an additional 1d10+3 damage when used for an all out attack, totaling at 2d10+10 damage total. Except It is written to have 2d10+7 damage here, which doesn't add up. The 1d10+7 damage the Macro Hammer is displayed to have, however, adds up perfectly to 2d10+10 with an additional d10+3… These details together lead me to believe that the statblocks for the two weapons were accidentally mixed up.

 

With that in mind, I opened up the latest Errata on the Support page to see how FFG resolved this small error.
Sadly, there was nothing concerning these two hammers in there. What I found was, however…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whoa, I thought, there is another kind of Thunder Hammer in the book besides the Lathe-Pattern, and I missed it? I quickly opened the book to see the Mezoa-Pattern Thunder Hammer.

Guess what, it doesn't exist. There's still only the Lathe-Pattern, with its single head, and hard-hitting but unwieldy nature.

 

I'm still perplexed a bit. Now what are the true stats of the two exotic hammers? Am I correct about the stats being mixed up? Or was I the one that misread something? And where's the Mezoa-Pattern Thunder Hammer? Why are there fixes for a weapon which is just not there?

 

 

 

 

(Oh, and on this note, the Combat Shotgun is also missing altogether from the Core book, but the stats can just be copied over from the other games, thankfully.)



#2 Nameless2all

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:42 PM

For some reason I remember reading this same issue awhile back, but alas I can't find it via the search function. IMHO, I agree with you 100%. I houseruled the switch of just the damage in my game when it was brought to my attention. And a sticky note is still there to remind me. ;)

EDIT: And I don't know what is up with the Thunder Hammer bit.  Guess their proof readers took the day off at FFG.


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#3 Thaddux

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:06 PM

Having read many FFG publications, I put to you this question:

What proof readers?



#4 jabberwoky

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:10 PM

After looking at the books and the forums, I think I have an answer: the Thunder Hammer listed in Into the Storm is a Mezoa-Pattern Thunder Hammer.

Apparently, the errata is to make the Thunder Hammer listed in Into the Storm more like the Thunder hammers in Deathwatch.  The Deathwatch Thunder hammer has the concussive property (which isn't in Rogue Trader), so it gets the shocking property, which is similar.  The Thunder hammers in Dark Heresy have similar stats to the Rogue Trader version, but have the Unnatural Strength (x2) property which, RAW, the Rogue Trader variant doesn't have.

So to recap (and I will probably be corrected on this) the Mezoa-Pattern Thunder hammer has the following properties:

Mezoa-Pattern Thunder Hammer:     Melee - Range 0m - 2d10+4 E - Pen 10 - Power Field, Shocking, Unwieldy - 15 kg - Very Rare

  • Can be wielded one-handed
  • Character also applies Unnatural Strength (x2) to damage rolls

Which of course brings up the question, does the Thunder hammer in Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunter also have the shocking quality?

Reference: fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=161&efcid=0&efidt=397356



#5 HappyDaze

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

Since your link doesn't seem to be working (most haven't for me since they added a new forum for the EotE Beginner's game), here's an email from the (at the time) authority:

 

Hello [HappyDaze],

I'll answer your questions in order.

1) Concussive is a Deathwatch Weapon Quality. You'll note the RT errata adds the Shocking Quality to the Mezoa-pattern Thunder Hammer, giving it a very similar effect.

2) The DW Thunder Hammer should double the user's SB, in the same manner as a Power Fist.

3) The Mezoa-pattern Thunder Hammer does not require two hands to wield.

Hope that helps!

Sam

On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:01 AM, <[HappyDaze]> wrote:

> Message from:
> [HappyDaze]
>
>
> E-mail:
> REDACTED
>
>
> Rule Question:
> Into the Storm gives us rules for the Thunder Hammer. These rules grant it Power Field and Unwieldy. The Errata has already hit this item and has it add double the wielder's SB to damage. However, none of this seems to match up with what the Thunder Hammer can do in Deathwatch. Granting that the Astartes version is going to do more damage, I'm still left with a few questions:
>
> 1) The DW version has Concussive. Since this appears to be the prime trait of the Thunder Hammer, shouldn't the ItS version have Concussive too?
>
> 2) The DW version does not add double the wielder's SB to damage. Is this an issue that will be addressed in upcoming DW errata, or is it an intentional difference? Should the double SB addition be dropped if the ItS version is given Concussive (as noted in the above question)?
>
> 3) Does the It S version of the Thunder Hammer require two hands to wield by an unaugmented human? I am assuming so, but melee weapons found in ItS that require two hands seem to have this noted.

Sam Stewart
RPG Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

 


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#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:53 PM

I should note that, despite the official word on the matter, I have house ruled that the Mezoa-pattern Thunder Hammer requires two hands to wield. Swinging around a 15kg hammer in two hands is going to be pretty tough, but in one hand it's a bit too much for me.


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#7 Géza!

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:07 AM

HappyDaze said:

I should note that, despite the official word on the matter, I have house ruled that the Mezoa-pattern Thunder Hammer requires two hands to wield. Swinging around a 15kg hammer in two hands is going to be pretty tough, but in one hand it's a bit too much for me.

 

I think I'm gonna houserule it similarly as well. Unless you're sporting at least power armour, no one handed thunder hammer shenanigans!



#8 jabberwoky

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:54 AM

Unless of course you're a Space Marine in Deathwatch where you're strong enough to twirl it like a baton and have a storm shield in the other hand.






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