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Shotgun Slugs; too weak?


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#1 Plushy

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:11 PM

 Solid slugs are +1 Damage, +2 Pen, lose Scatter. That brings a Combat Shotgun up to 1d10+5 Pen 2. That's… pretty lame.

I'm possessed of the opinion that they should be stronger. I feel like it giving Tearing makes the most sense, but that's pretty powerful. The damage or pen needs a boost, I think. What do you guys propose? 

(Shooting a shotgun with solid slugs is one of my favorite weapon concepts ever. Seeing it so weak is a bummer and I'm not sure what to do other than use Modified Bolt Shells and re-fluff them.)


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#2 Cymbel

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:47 PM

Really? I think they are pretty great. The problem is more comparing them to shotgun shells, what they are is a replacement for a rifle (like real life). Shotgun shells are weak at longer ranges, where slugs shine

Besides, 1d10+5 Pen 2 is pretty darn good, the closest thing to that raw power for cheap ammo is a heavy stubber and with a full auto shotgun…

Tearing is somewhat plausible, but basically makes them cheaper bolt shells AND too good. Just remember shotgun slugs are not the normal ammo for a shotgun for a reason, but they have their purposes. Plus they give the shotgun a heavy damage option while autoguns dont have a scatter function.

Side note, the Naval Pistol (and its bigger cousin) is 1d10+4 Tearing, so it isnt all that unplausible for a slug to have tearing or just invent a new slug like round that has tearing.

(P.S. Do you use the BC Shotgun Scatter rules?)

Also, a neat idea to give slugs more use without tearing, let them destroy simple locks (like IRL door breachers)



#3 Cymbel

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 12:51 AM

Sorry to double post, but I asked a friend of mine who plays DH and loves guns (very knowledgeable) about how he would go about statting a shotgun slug. He thinks adding tearing (but no pen) would be best as "in reality, shotgun slugs are insane, its an ounce of lead entering your body"

Another idea of his is removing the bonus to pen, but giving it something like Proven (4) to show how hard it hits (you could add rules for their problem with armor, but then it starts getting really complicated)

So I hope that helps

 



#4 JuankiMan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:24 AM

Cymbel said:

Side note, the Naval Pistol (and its bigger cousin) is 1d10+4 Tearing, so it isnt all that unplausible for a slug to have tearing or just invent a new slug like round that has tearing.

Naval Pistols use custom-made special ammunition designed to fragment and burst inside the target which justify the Tearing rule. A solid metal slug does insane damage, represented by the high damage value of the shotgun using it, but it doesn't compare to a round that explodes inside the target's body.



#5 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:44 AM

Plushy said:

 Solid slugs are +1 Damage, +2 Pen, lose Scatter. That brings a Combat Shotgun up to 1d10+5 Pen 2. That's… pretty lame.

I'm possessed of the opinion that they should be stronger. I feel like it giving Tearing makes the most sense, but that's pretty powerful. The damage or pen needs a boost, I think. What do you guys propose? 

(Shooting a shotgun with solid slugs is one of my favorite weapon concepts ever. Seeing it so weak is a bummer and I'm not sure what to do other than use Modified Bolt Shells and re-fluff them.)

I'm not sure how 1d10+5 is "weak" - it is, afterall, equal to bolters and heavy stubbers. Bolters get the edge through Explosive damage, Tearing and higher Pen - but at that point, you're dealing with a projectile of comparable size to a shotgun slug, only one with an armour-piercing tip and an explosive core.

And, considering the ease of obtaining solid shotgun slugs, getting that kind of damage on a cheap, reliable and readily-available type of weapon is quite useful.

That was part of the point of adding them to the game - versatility. Ever since Necromunda (which is also where the modified bolt shells come from), Shotguns in the 40k universe have been noteworthy for their versatility more than anything else - a wide range of easily-obtained shells for different situations.


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#6 Thaddux

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:48 PM

Also, that's just in a Combat Shotgun.  Load that shizz into a Meat Hammer, Vanaheim, Spectre or Shotcannon.

My Arch-Militant Keeps his customised Blackhammer loaded with slugs strapped to his leg for emergencies.



#7 Gavinfoxx

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:01 AM

Whaat? Solid Slugs are GREAT!

Assumptions: You can silence/suppress Shotguns, regardless of what the rules say, cause that is possible, but difficult, in real life. Extended Magazines have Scarce rarity, and can be combined with Duplus Clips.  Recoil Baffling and Spread Limiter is Rare. You can upgrade an existing integrated melee weapon on a firearm to a similar weapon (mono, chain, etc.) by obtaining a similar sized blade, as part of an acquisition check. Maglev Impeller Upgrade costs 150, and puts coils around the barrel of a weapon, making it a hybrid coilgun/solid penetrator weapon. The full sized backpack ammo pack gives 200 ammo for solid penetrator weapons. If you have a Maglev Impeller on the weapon, you can remove the chemical propulsion from the ammo, making space for the batteries needed on a hybrid electric/solid penetrator ammo pack, to keep the ammo count 200. Changes to Sight rules: You can have two optical scopes on a weapon, but you can only benefit from one optical scope at a time, but you can benefit from an optical scope and a red dot at the same time. Having more than two optical scopes with the weapon means that the weapon comes with extra scopes, and the soldier chooses which two to have on the weapon at any one time.  All these items are just a list of items that can be added; one isn't getting a weapon with ALL of these things at any level in one Acquisition check; instead, the idea is to get the bits piecemeal and have people put the weapons together over time.

Note: Skitarii Vanaheim Shotgun already has integrated weapon (a serrated bayonet) and a red dot sight

*Up to Average rarity of each component:

Common Quality Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun + Solid Slugs + Silencer + Telescopic Sight + Exterminator Cartridge

*Up to Scarce rarity of each component:

Good Quality Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun + Solid Slugs + Silencer + Duplus Ammo Clips + Extended Magazines + Telescopic Sight + Extra Pistol Grip + Common Chain Knife + Exterminator Cartridge + Loyalty Spirit Vox

*Up to Rare rarity of each component:

Best Quality Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun + Solid Slugs + Silencer + Backpack Ammunition Pack + Rangefinder + Extra Pistol Grip + Good Quality Chain Knife + Tox Dispenser + Exterminator Cartridge + Recoil Baffling + Spread Limiter + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher + Vox Operated + Loyalty Spirit Dermprint + Inferno Thermal Grenade + Targeter

*Up to Very Rare rarity of each component:

Best Quality Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun + Solid Slugs + Silencer + Backpack Ammunition Pack + Rangefinder + Extra Pistol Grip + Lathe Blade Combat Knife + Tox Dispenser + Exterminator Cartridge + Recoil Baffling + Spread Limiter + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher + Vox Operated + Loyalty Spirit Dermprint + Plasma Grenade + Targeter + Maglev Impeller + Preysense Sight + Spoor Targeter + Motion Predictor

Here's the final damage stats for the ranged portion:

Basic, 50m, S/3/6, 1d10+6I, Pen 2, Clip 200, Rld 2 Full






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