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Dagobah's Death Star Trench Run Mission


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#1 DagobahDave

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:02 PM

Check it out. Play it, if you want. Let me know what you think. Keep in mind that this is a playtest version, so the graphics are totally bare bones. Snazzy versions will come along later.

Dagobah's Death Star Trench Run Mission PDF (playtest v01): javascript:void(0);/*1348268578927*/

Copy-and-paste link: http://www.outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Dagobahs-DSTR-v01.pdf


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#2 DrUnK3n_PaNdA

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:22 PM

There was a similar scenario posted on Boardgamegeek, and I've been working on the details for one as well. I actually like the addition of turbolasers in the trench as one of my problems with the other iterations of this scenario I've seen was that the rebel ships in the trench could intentionally choose slow speed maneuvers to force Imperials into base contact and deny them their shots. The turbolasers make it so you don't want to linger in the trench.

 

I didn't see it in the rules, but I also think ships entering the trench should automatically align with it. Otherwise it would be very difficult to actually get ships to stay in the trench once there. Even with the drifting maneuver.

 

Thematically, I'd give everyone a target lock on the exhaust port for free when they enter the trench, but ships in the trench should probably not be able to take any actions, just as though they were avoiding a collision to represent the tense maneuvering, also mechanically it reduces the chances of a kill against the exhaust port on the first attack. (No focus+target lock). The exhaust port it's self seems easy to destroy in one go with your system, it might be better to use an alternative sort of damage where an attack must roll a certain number of hits. It's not about pounding the exhaust port after all, it's about a precision shot that will actually enter it.



#3 Rollins

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:47 PM

I don't know that I would "give" them a target lock. Use it as an action.  Possible rule: If you start the targeting once you enter the Trench by the time you get into attack range you get +1 die on your attack. (maybe need to be in range 2) to make this attack.  I think it's going to be hard to even get to the end of the Trench.

This rocks .. cant wait to try it. Good job.



#4 DagobahDave

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:09 PM

We're testing it tonight and making little changes here and there. (The Power Units are too easy to destroy, so we've doubled their hit points.) Otherwise, so far so good. But we're not in the trench yet…


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#5 DagobahDave

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

The Rebels really have a tough job here. A few tweaks are on the way. (Use the same link as before. I'm too lazy to call this a version 2.)

Changes: The turbolasers are too deadly. It seems weird to give them just 1 attack die, but there are so many of these guns on the map that they're still going to deliver a lot of punishment.

The Imperials start too close to the trench entry area. We're going to adjust the deployment zones to give the Rebels a little head start.


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#6 DagobahDave

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

There was a similar scenario posted on Boardgamegeek, and I've been working on the details for one as well. I actually like the addition of turbolasers in the trench as one of my problems with the other iterations of this scenario I've seen was that the rebel ships in the trench could intentionally choose slow speed maneuvers to force Imperials into base contact and deny them their shots. The turbolasers make it so you don't want to linger in the trench.

Yeah, and it's totally from the movie. There's even a "The guns, they've stopped" kind of mechanic, where the Imperial player can turn off all of the trench guns in order to pursue the Rebels in there without risking friendly fire.

In the movie, there are gun towers right along the upper edge of the trench, which I'd actually forgotten about. It just seemed to make sense for the scenario when I set them up that way.

 

 

I didn't see it in the rules, but I also think ships entering the trench should automatically align with it. Otherwise it would be very difficult to actually get ships to stay in the trench once there. Even with the drifting maneuver.

I don't see a reason to do that. I think being misaligned may be a feature, not a bug. The trench is wider than it seems, so you have a little bit of room to maneuver, but you have to get the approach right. From there, you can weave (or drift) if you have to and still reach the target. In the movie, Biggs is doing a lot of weaving in the trench run, which looks a little bit like the series of shallow 3 curves that a bad approach tends to create. I kind of like that aspect of it.

 

 

Thematically, I'd give everyone a target lock on the exhaust port for free when they enter the trench, but ships in the trench should probably not be able to take any actions, just as though they were avoiding a collision to represent the tense maneuvering, also mechanically it reduces the chances of a kill against the exhaust port on the first attack. (No focus+target lock). The exhaust port it's self seems easy to destroy in one go with your system, it might be better to use an alternative sort of damage where an attack must roll a certain number of hits. It's not about pounding the exhaust port after all, it's about a precision shot that will actually enter it.

No, I'd rather that the trench run be more dynamic than just "race down there and shoot." There are no special rules regarding target locks in the trench, so the timing and ranging of the final shot (which must be made at range 2-3) means you will probably only get one chance at it, and you'll have to roll perfectly (4 hits), which is tricky since most pilots won't have two actions in order to acquire a target lock and take a Focus token in the same turn. You really only have that one turn to acquire the target lock and make the shot before you have to maneuver out of the way if you don't succeed (since you're heading straight for the edge of the play area).

"Almost there, almost there" sounds like a guy trying to get a target lock on something that's too far away. It seems that he only gets that target "lock" moments before he has to fire and pull up. I think that's pretty much what my scenario produces, without changing the target lock rules.

Completing the mission isn't going to be easy for a single pilot to do. You'll probably need to take a second shot at it, just like in the movie. You'll almost certainly need a second ship in the queue to take a shot. But in this mission, you can probably take those shots in rapid succession, instead of stretched out like we see in the movie. But I think it'll be nail-biter. And if you can get two ships into firing position you deserve to win, because that means you've run the gauntlet of surface turbolasers, enemy fighters and trench guns. Hitting the exhaust port should seem easy by comparison.


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#7 Rollins

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 01:20 AM

this is sounding fun…  how about giving the rebals one turn move before the imperials bring their ships in?  " the rebals are evading our turbo lasers" "we'll have to destroy them ship to ship"



#8 DagobahDave

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 01:31 AM

how about giving the rebals one turn move before the imperials bring their ships in? " the rebals are evading our turbo lasers" "we'll have to destroy them ship to ship"

We've adjusted the Imperials' starting position so they'll arrive at the trench entry area just after the Rebels, assuming they both race to it.

 

 

 


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#9 DagobahDave

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:14 PM

I've updated the mission PDF with a few changes after our very successful playtests. They were successful because they were difficult for both players, but it is possible for either side to win. And they were fun!

Here's Luke, Biggs and Horton starting their attack run with plenty of Imperials trying to mess it up for them.

 


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#10 Rollins

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:05 AM

We played your mission last night.. was fun.  Are you still doing 6 for Def on Power nodes ? seemed a bit high.

 

We did a 100 pt split 2v2 each side had 1 rookie player. I was rebal with the Xwing squad and my teammate had the Ywing squad but when tring to enter the trench he turned to early and hit the corner at the dashed line. They wouldn't let him enter. nor would I and that was the Ywing with Protons. That didn't end up very well.

We talked about giving the Rebels another 50 pts and allowing an additional squad to join in after a few turns. Your thoughts?

Have you won with Rebels yet?



#11 DagobahDave

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:39 AM

Thank you so much for telling me how it went. If you'd like to be added to the list of playtesters, just let me know the name of your group (or the players, with their permission). I'll add them to the revised PDF.

* * * * * * * *

Power Node is a very good term. I'll use that instead of Power Unit.

The Power Nodes are important objectives, and I thought they should be able to take some punishment, since the effect of destroying them can be a big boost to the Rebels' chances of success. By concentrating fire, two or three Rebel ships should be able to destroy a Node in one round.

* * * * * * * *

Getting into the trench is technically challenging, and requires good planning. If you're too eager, you'll miss the entrance. (We did.) After a couple of plays, both players should have a good strategy for getting into the trench. The Rebels will get there first if they plan correctly. The Imperials can get there at the same time, but not in a formation that makes it easy to actually enter the trench, and the Rebels will be in the Trench Zone by that time, unable to be attacked by Surface Zone ships.

We saw all kinds of stuff from the Imperials to compensate for their too-fast approach -- frantic barrel rolls and Koiogran turns in order to avoid missing the entrance -- while the Rebels just sauntered in. Trench running is something you have to practice, which kind of makes sense. Luke did it all the time in his T-16 back home.

Next time, the Imperial player is planning to start their trench-running TIEs facing the bottom of the mission map, and make a fast but wide U-turn right into the trench. This should put them in a perfect position behind the Rebel trench runners -- not too close and not too far.

* * * * * * * *

The Imperials actually seem to be fine at 100 points, but the Rebels could use another ship or two out there. In today's test, we're going to give 125 to the Rebels and keep the Imperials at 100. We're also going to impose a limit of 1 TIE Advanced for the Imperial player and see how that works out.

I don't think the Rebels should get reinforced, at least not until the Millennium Falcon is available. :)

* * * * * * * *

The Rebels have not won a full test of the scenario yet, but have reached the end of the trench and made the shot. They just rolled very poorly, quite anticlimactic. We're thinking about Agility 1, Shields 3 for the Exhaust Port. Any unshielded damage from a proton torpedo results in a Rebel victory. It's still a tough shot, but not impossible in one go, especially with focus.


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#12 Rollins

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

9/23 round / 2 players / Rebels 150 pts / Imp 100 pts / Power node 3hull
We allowed the Rebels 1 full move/turn before Imp got a turn. Allowing the advantage of an attack of the Death Star, We set our start for the Imp within 3attack length of the far edge.

We ran the power node at 3 Hull the rebel took only 1 down. I did not provide any benefit for him. I think 3 is a little low but I feel 6 is kind of high.

“Our issue with walls in the Trench” Move till you hit the wall / roll as normal for obstructed damage / forward movement of the ship stops and is aligned with the forward direction (bounce off the wall). We found this to be effective.

My opinion of what we learned today. Start: Rebels get to move first 1st on the 1st turn. Next turn is done as normal. Power node maybe 4 Hull.

We didn’t have time to finish; however, he was lined up about 6 in from being able to target the port.

Very fun everyone that saw it loved it. We had a great time. I have a start photo. The guy at FFG took photos as we were going. I also have Video but need to edit it.

 



#13 DagobahDave

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:30 PM

Excellent!

I'm going to try Hull 4 for the power nodes and see how that works.

I like how you're handling wall collisions. I'll work that into the mission description.

150 points sounds high, but I agree that the Rebels need the help. We're going to try out 125 points for Rebels, 100 for Imperials.

Changes to starting positions: The Rebels will start anywhere within range 2 of their edge, and will get 1 full round of play on their own. The Imperials can fire the turbolasers, but have to wait until the End phase to of round 1 to place their ships anywhere within range 1 of their edge of the table. Round 2 proceeds as normal.

The exhaust port is currently Agility 1, Shields 3. You need to deal at least 1 damage to the completely unshielded port to achieve victory. (This is functionally the same as Hull 1, but "destroying" the exhaust port sounds silly.)

A couple of tweaks to the final shot. The Firing Position is a 38mm x 38mm square about range 2.5 from the exhaust port. To make the shot, some part of the shooter's base has to be overlapping the firing position square. That means it's a fairly large area (nearly 12cm x 12cm), but not so big that a single ship can take two shots before having to exit the trench (or crash into the wall). Even at minimum speed, you'll be out of the firing position on the next turn.

Your image is broken! I'd love to see what you did. Did you play this at the FFG game center?

* * * * * * * * *

The lineup for our next test looks like this:

Rebels (125 points):
Wedge Antilles (X-Wing) + Marksmanship, Proton Torpedoes, R2-F2
Luke Skywalker (X-Wing) + Marksmanship, Proton Torpedoes
Horton Salm (Y-Wing) + Ion Cannon
Rookie Pilot (X-Wing)

Imperials (100 points):
Darth Vader (TIE Advanced) + Squad Leader, Concussion Missiles
"Howlrunner" (TIE Fighter)
"Backstabber" (TIE Fighter)
"Dark Curse" (TIE Fighter)
"Winged Gundark" (TIE Fighter)


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#14 tiepilot1138

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:14 AM

Have you run into a situation where the rebels had run out of torpedoes?  I read in another trench run setup that the rebels did not expend their torp if they missed.  That might be helpful, since a "real" X-Wing carries 6 and would thus be able to make a second run. 



#15 DagobahDave

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:03 AM

I think the 6 torpedoes thing comes from Star Wars RPG books, and I don't want to change the basic mechanics of the game any more than necessary. In this case, one shot per ship is thematically appropriate. In the movie, the first guy misses, and he orders someone else to make the attack run. Either he's too far out of position to make another attack himself, or he doesn't have any more torpedoes.

In the movie, the Rebels only use torpedoes to attack the exhaust port, rather than using them on any TIEs. If they really were supposed to have 6 torpedoes each, they were either ordered not to use them except on the exhaust port, or we just didn't see the instances where someone used one to blast a TIE.

Anyway, running out of proton torpedoes is one of the challenges. If the Rebels succeed easily, and just spam the exhaust port until they win, I've designed a bad scenario.

A ship can get its one shot. If it doesn't work, somebody else will have to try. That's how the movie does it. :)

A good strategy is to line up your Rebel fighters so that they can each take a shot as they reach the firing position. It probably will take two attempts, just like in the movie. But you might get lucky on the first shot, or get zilch on three shots. Nobody said this was going to be easy, and the dice may betray you or be your best friend.

Making a second attack run is time consuming, and the Rebels will probably be so beaten up by then that any remaining Imperials will finish them off before they reach the trench entrance again. So there's really no point in giving them more proton torpedoes.

In the movie, there are a few Y-Wings in the battle, and I think it's a good idea to bring at least one of them on this mission. I'd still take just one Proton Torpedo with the Ion Cannon, though. Even a tough Y-Wing isn't likely to survive two runs down the trench.

But yes, in our playtests the Rebels have had to abort the mission twice because they were incapable of finishing it, having run out of torpedoes. One time, they didn't even make it into the trench. It's a tough mission and you'll probably need to run it two or three times before the Rebels secure a win.


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#16 Rollins

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:24 AM

Here is the start of our Mission.. Provided this pic works correctly. I don't know why it seems to be so complicated to upload a photo. lousy interface.

 



#17 DagobahDave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:45 AM

When you paste the image URL into the image dialog/widget thing, wait until the Latin words change to your chosen image. Then you can click OK an the image should show in the final post. I wanna seeeee, dude!

 

Also, there's an updated version of the PDF (using the same link as before). Lots of changes, hopefully all for the better.

Copy-and-paste link: http://www.outworld-...hs-DSTR-v01.pdf


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#18 Rollins

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:08 PM

I figured it out. I don't have an online photo account. I'll need to set one up.

We played tonight. 4 of us. It went well,   Rebels 125 / Imp 100 .

Rebels destoryed 2 power nodes but didn't help them much. I feel they started to far from the Straight shot to the trench.  Interesting new set up you have.

I like what I see.



#19 DagobahDave

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

Email them to me if you want, and I'll upload them. luminousbeings at yahoo or gmail


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#20 Baphomet69

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:45 AM

 I'd really like to see this mission integrated with these tiles






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