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Ok, I just ordered Oath and Anvil and I want any thoughts on more than 4 players at once…


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#1 Tony P.

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:52 AM

 I read through the rules pdf last night and I noticed that it said even though they added 2 new factions it was still intended for 4 players. 

Any thoughts on how to expand a game to 5 or 6 players? 

My initial idea is that some of the scenarios would work just fine without many changes. Runewars, and Monument seem like they might be balanced out for this. I'm not as familiar with Monument since its the least played of the scenarios by my group. 

The Cataclysm might not work since so many of the event cards scale up depending on the number of players. The game might become impossible.

Rise of the Dragonlords I'm iffy on. Not sure what changes might need to be made here.

Please share any ideas on this or variants. 



#2 Budgernaut

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:08 AM

 The biggest problem is running out of 1-gold to start with. I think you'd need at least 30 1-gold cards and I don't think the base game has that many. I think I would give everyone 3 starting units, 4 1-gold cards and 1 2-gold card to start with. It's one less card, but you still have 5 gold in your deck to begin with. As long as all the players start with the same setup, it shouldn't affect gameplay too much, right?


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#3 Tony P.

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:33 AM

Budgernaut said:

 The biggest problem is running out of 1-gold to start with. I think you'd need at least 30 1-gold cards and I don't think the base game has that many. I think I would give everyone 3 starting units, 4 1-gold cards and 1 2-gold card to start with. It's one less card, but you still have 5 gold in your deck to begin with. As long as all the players start with the same setup, it shouldn't affect gameplay too much, right?

Unlike other FFG games like Runebound, I worry about how every little change might effect gameplay with Runeage. I LOVE this game but the base set seems like an older model car. Bare bones with only the things you need to make it go. Take out or add something and it might not run right. 

I hadn't considered a lack of gold in a 6 player game. Pretty obvious now that you point it out. 

Adding a 2 gold piece might upset game balance imho. With the right first hand draw some of the races might have an unfair advantage. The Undead, and Elves spring to mind. Of course it might all balance out as you suggest. 

I've asked this before but didn't get many answer. Have you tried many variants on the scenarios? I mean adding or replacing cards? If so what were the results? 



#4 Drag0on

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:10 PM

We exchanged some neutral cards in the runewars scenario, most importantly, exchanging the Dragon for the Demon. It made the game more interesting, as before the player who claimed the Dragons won most of the time. Now it was different. We also experimented with adding the sorcerer. (Forget what it replaced) As means to destroy cards.

 

You need to experiment to see what cards works the best, but as long as the costs remain mostly the same (2-4-5/6) You can replace everything for anything.

- Praetor Dragoon



#5 Tromdial

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:59 AM

 My recommendation is that you look carefully at how to implement cards at a rate that follows adding players from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 in the base game, imagine if it will work well using a 5th or 6th player amount with extra cards that are missing, and decide if you wish to buy the game a second time, adding what you need in respect to each new player. This is just something off the top of my head but even I am considering it, as I assumed incorrectly the game would expand for additional players. Keep in mind, you may have to buy Oath and Anvil too a second time unless you are cool with not being able to play the newer scenarios because of the lack of neutral cards in the play area.



#6 Tromdial

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:01 AM

 Good news: if you adopt this idea and fantasy flight releases a second expansion with two additional races, you will be prepared for that with your 2nd core set seeing as it provides for an additional 4 players, not just the 2 you seek expanded from just Oath and Anvil.



#7 Tony P.

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:20 AM

 8 player Rune Age? That would be epic!  



#8 Mike Eldredd

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

I realize of course that Rune Age is not Dominion but considering my group can't stand to play Dominion with 5 or 6,  there's no way my group would do this 5+ players.  The downtime and politicing of who to attack and what to do would just slow it down way too much.  Best just to enjoy the variety and new combinations the factions add to the classic 2-4 player.  Otherwise, you may be better to just consider creating a home-ruled custom scenario - maybe include alliances or team play to help speed decision making up.  



#9 Tony P.

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:37 AM

 I'm thinking of team play ideas. I was trying to figure out a mechanic that would allow players to aid each other when attacking or defending. One idea is for a player to declare an attack then allow an ally to play cards along with him. They would decide who played in what order, and they could even alternate. The only difference from normal play would be they would potentially have 10 cards available for use instead of just 5. The player whose turn it is would still be subject to any effects that targeted the active player. 

This would also work for defense but the active players home realm would suffer any damage. 

The active player would also claim any cities or strongholds captured this way. 

This would not really work for any scenario except Runewars.



#10 Tromdial

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

Wanted to repeat the Rune Age idea and taking two cores and putting them together for 8 player: really you don't need to wait for an expansion if you don't mind seeing duplicate armies on the board. It would be just like Starcraft or Warcraft where you have different players vying for power though they are the same races in conflict with one another.



#11 Tromdial

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

Likewise, this lessens any conflict between players who will play Undead, or any other race that is favored by more than one person.



#12 Tony P.

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:20 AM

 I think I'm going to try to play a five player game this weekend. I'm thinking either Runewars, Quest for Power, or Ascension of the Overlord. To counter the gold problem I might just proxy some gold and sleeve my whole set. This could also work for adding any extra neutral cards. This would require a little more work than I'm probably willing to do though. 

A free and easy fix would just be to do as was suggested earlier and give less gold or in a different denomination. I might try this. 3 one gold each and one 2 gold to start. I hope this slight change doesn't unbalance any of the races. 

Another option might be to just have everyone start with 4 gold. Again I'm not sure how this might unbalance things. I'm leaning more toward the previous idea.



#13 Tromdial

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:03 AM

Remember also when you add the additional player(s) above 4, the mechanics of the event deck will also need to be tweaked.

This is a listing of cards that need to be tweaked, or do not, under circumstances that I could see when playing Rune Age above 4 players (some cards may be from Oath and Anvil, marked with *; some may not exist, marked with *** ):

Any event that would affect all players affects each and every player fairly. i.e. Mind Riders, Thieves Guild, Restless Warriors, Plague of Vermin, *Dragonlord Baraxis, etc.
Fairly is a rough term and requires some judgement, but any card that would do damage extra per player while exceeding a block (especially as a 1st tier event card), or up the strength of an enemy to make it almost unclearable even toward the end of the game, should be deemed unfair (see below). For example, Dragonlord Baraxis still is fair because each player still has the chance to block their own end of damage pending on the cards they have in hand, and the same can be said with Plague of Vermin. This is how they built their deck, both Baraxis and Plague are tier two cards and are less likely to show up early game, and are not dependent on immediately blocking with unit strength damage coming from every additional player in game.

Events that gain tokens according to each player does so. i.e. Holy War, *Dragonlord's Resolve, etc. (with exception of Dragonlord Kraxonis, see below).

Some cards that need fixed to still see only 4 players playing even if there are as many as 8, and why:

  • Reinforcements: each player beyond the 4th receives the same acquirement cost the 4th received: up to 6 gold or influence. Any more in gold or influence would diminish the value of future expansions that have even costlier units and suddenly they are earned without any challenge from a 1st tier card.
    For example, after the first round, the event card flips and reveals Reinforcements. 1st grabs a Knight, 2nd grabs a Manticore, 3rd grabs a *Warchief, 4th grabs an *Obscene… 8th grabs a 10 gold unit legendary mythic called ***Archlich Revik who has 13 strength and raises all units from his discard pile when played. Again, acquired on second turn. Keep the cap at the 4th player's acquire.
  • *Dragonlord Kraxonis: the more damage tokens per player this dragonlord has, the more damage it will be able to dish out. Because players share a home realm in co-op, it only takes one player to be unable to block to get all players killed. Though more players means more possibility to block, this is still a tier 1 event card and instead of blocking 9 for a 4p game, you're looking at 17 damage in an 8p game on its first attack. Game over.
  • Army of the Possessed: pretty much same reason as Dragonlord Kraxonis, as a 1st tier slap of 14 is very harsh. I'd keep it at 10 as the max.
  • *Overlord Enemy cards that have strength according to the number of players (ex. Renegade Oracle, Sellsword Army, and God Ascendant).
    I would recommend keeping these at 4 players maxed because the Overlord still has advantage with hand refill, plenty of cards that still affect all Allied players, and leave the Overlord's Nefarious Schemes unchecked in compensation (Draw 1 card per Allied player in play).
  • Rune Wars can only ever be up to 6 players without a second core, as there are still only 6 Dragon Runes available after Oath and Anvil's release. If playing with 6 players without a core, remove from the game Dragon Rune Discovery before play.

If I missed a card or scenario from Rune Age that needs an errata for going above 4 players, notify me and I will give you my recommendation. Hope this was helpful.



#14 Tromdial

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

Overlord Enemy card max of 4 players in fact means 3 Allied players with 1 Overlord.



#15 Tromdial

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

 Last thing: forgot if you do have two cores (like me), Rune Wars may use duplicate Runes then to compensate extra players.

Variable Set-Up is as follows:

5 Players: 31 1-gold, 20 2-gold, 14 3-gold, 7 neutral cards in each pile, 6 neutral cities, 7 *Landmarks (if playing Quest for Power).

6 Players: 36 1-gold, 22 2-gold, 16 3-gold, 8 neutral cards in each pile, 7 neutral cities, 8 *Landmarks.

7 Players: 41 1-gold, 24 2-gold, 18 3-gold, 9 neutral cards in each pile, 8 neutral cities, 8 *Landmarks.

8 Players: 46 1-gold, 26 2-gold, 20 3-gold, 10 neutral cards in each pile, 8 neutral cities, 8 *Landmarks.

2 of every race may be played. Max game size with 2 cores is 8 players even with Oath and Anvil expansion. I would not recommend buying a 3rd core and expansion to go up to 12 players but whatever floats your boat. The downtime of players waiting for turn will massively increase as well every time you add a player is like increasing overall game time by 30 mins on an average. Having said that, this game can always expand for more players if you use the variable correctly and respect group limits on certain cards. Have fun.



#16 Tromdial

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:19 AM

 Excuse me: I'm going to exit this post and make a new post showing how 2 cores and 2 expansions can make a 9-player Rune Age. I gotta go to work. The forum is now Tony P.'s on how to make a basic core and expansion fit more than 4 players. Be back with an update in an upcoming post. Again, sorry for the brain storming mess.



#17 Tony P.

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

Tromdial said:

 Excuse me: I'm going to exit this post and make a new post showing how 2 cores and 2 expansions can make a 9-player Rune Age. I gotta go to work. The forum is now Tony P.'s on how to make a basic core and expansion fit more than 4 players. Be back with an update in an upcoming post. Again, sorry for the brain storming mess.

 

I doubt I'll ever get to play a five player or more game so its kind of a mute point to me! I hope that works out well!






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